[3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

[Oslecamo]

I'm assuming, as that there is no Kyton listed in the Alphabetic area, and not in the other list, that there is indeed nary a Kyton kicking around in these two threads.

Ok, you're scaring me. They're right after Kuo-Toa and before Marilith.

[AugustNights]

demidracolich: I think you may be confused. Those are Kythons, and I asked for Kytons, Chain Devils

The h makes a mild difference.
Or are they not commonly called Kytons?

[flabort]

probably everyone thought you made a spelling error. I did at first.

[monkman]

Dracotaur

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Dracotaur
HD=d10
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Dracotaur body, +1 str,+1 con

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|Spit fire, +1 str,+1 con,

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|+1 str,+1 con, Growth[/table]
Skills: 2 skill points +int, quadruple at 1st level Class skills: Balance, Intimidate, jump, Knowledge Arcana, listen, sense motive, spellcraft, spot, survival, swim

Proefeciencies simple weapons, martial weapons, light armor and light sheilds
Dracotaur body Dracotaur Body: At 1st level a Dracotaur loses all racial bonus it had and gains monstrous humanoid traits, with the reptilian subtype. He's medium sized with darkvision 60', 2 natural claw attacks dealing 1d4+str modifier damage each as primary natural attacks, and one bite attack dealing 1d6+str modifier damage as a secondary natural attack.when he beacomes large his claws turn into a 1d6 and his bite turns into a 1d8 . He has a base speed of 50. Beacuse of there tails, Dracotaurs gets a bonus to balance ,jump and swim checks.At 1 HD it is a +2 bonus,At 3 HD it's a +4 bonus and for every 2 HD it gains a additonal +2.A dracotaur's lower body is like an horse, wich allows the dracotaur to count as riding for beneftical purposes. For example, a dracotaurr charging with a lance deals double damage. It also counts as a quadruped for carrying purposes
In addition, a Dracotaur gains a bonus to natural armor equal to his constitution bonus.

Spit fire A Dracotaur can spit a glob of fire as a standard action. His spit is a sticky adhesive subsistence similar to alchemist’s fire .After he has spit he cannot spit again for 1 minute. It has a max range of 20 ft at 2HD, every 2HD after the second it's range increase by 10ft. Spit fire is treated as a ranged touch attack. At lv 2 it damages 1d6 and will augment by another 1d6 per 2HD.It last one round per 2 HD,Beacuse of it being a sticky subsatnce its is not able to be tooken off untill it is burnt

Growth At 3th HD a Dracotaur grows to large size(long)
His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties

[Trenelus]

A question rised in our game group about these pseudo-spellcasters, monsters who partially advance spellcasting (mind flayer, succubus, mummy, beholder etc).

Question being:
If such a monster multiclasses spellcasting class, does it gain bonus spell slots from high spellcasting ability score to the lower spell levels it currently has as effectively 0?

For example Razur, mind flayer level 5 takes 1 level of sorcerer would have cl 6, 3 3rd level spell slots, 1 2nd level spell slot, 1 3rd level spell known and 1 0ht level spell known. However, having Charisma score of 20, would Razur gain bonus spell slots for 1st spell level (in this case, 2 bonus 1st level spells)?

We ourselves thought that yes, that might be the case (of course the poor Razur could only use those slots for his only cantrip...), but we wanted ask how the designer thinks on the matter.

[Gorgondantess]

That's the funny thing, they aren't! Thanks to the nonassociated levels rule, a MM gnoll/fullcaster 2 is CR 2, but a MM flind gnoll/fullcaster 2 is CR 3, wich as you always claim it's heresy as he's falling behind, mental score bonus be damned!

Yes, being weaker actualy helps you becoming a caster because you have a bigger motivation to learn magic when your base abilities aren't that shiny to begin with. That's why the feeble humans and elves and gnomes are so damn good spellcasters!

The Flind Gnoll is both bigger level and with better abilities so they have less motivation to become casters. Point. Mind you they can still get a better caster level with brutality.

Then why are mindflayers casters? They have a whopping 15 ECL- or 8 CR- to contend with, and yet they are considered caster characters.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Dracotaur

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Dracotaur
HD=d10
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Dracotaur body, +1 str,+1 con

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|Spit fire, +1 str,+1 con,

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|+1 str,+1 con, Growth[/table]
Skills: 2 skill points +int, quadruple at 1st level Class skills: Balance, Intimidate, jump, Knowledge Arcana, listen, sense motive, spellcraft, spot, survival, swim

Proefeciencies simple weapons, martial weapons, light armor and light sheilds
Dracotaur body Dracotaur Body: At 1st level a Dracotaur loses all racial bonus it had and gains monstrous humanoid traits, with the reptilian subtype. He's medium sized with darkvision 60', 2 natural claw attacks dealing 1d4+str modifier damage each as primary natural attacks, and one bite attack dealing 1d6+str modifier damage as a secondary natural attack. he has a base speed of 50. Beacuse of there tails, Dracotaurs gets a bonus to balance ,jump and swim checks.
At 1 HD it is a +2 bonus,At 3 HD it's a +4 bonus and for every 2 HD it gains a additonal +2.
In addition, a Dracotaur gains a bonus to natural armor equal to his constitution bonus.

Spit fire A Dracotaur can spit a glob of fire as a standard action. His spit is a sticky adhesive subsistence similar to alchemist’s fire .After he has spit he cannot spit again for 1 minute. It has a max range of 20 ft at 2HD, every 2HD after the second it's range increase by 10ft. Spit fire is treated as a ranged touch attack. At lv 2 it damages 1d6 and will augment by another 1d6 per 2HD.It last one round per 2 HD,Beacuse of it being a sticky subsatnce its is not able to be tooken off untill it is burnt

Growth At 3th HD a Dracotaur grows to large size
His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties

Just pointing that the image is some kind of trogoldyte, the actual dracotaur is like this

[Volthawk]

Just pointing that the image is some kind of trogoldyte

Blackscale Lizardfolk, actually.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Blackscale Lizardfolk, actually.

my point still stands!! that wasn't a dracotaur

[monkman]

ok its changed

[Oslecamo]

Then why are mindflayers casters? They have a whopping 15 ECL- or 8 CR- to contend with, and yet they are considered caster characters.

They have SLAs, and quite powerfull at that.

Trenelus:Yes that's what I intended, you geting the bonus slots. They won't be that usefull whitout actual spells known of the respective level as you pointed out.

monkman:Hmm, dusk eclipse seems to be right, please swap the pictures. Anyway it's all cleaned up so will add it to index now, good job!

EDIT:Speaking of wich, they're quadrupeds right? Please put a note on the Dracotaur body about that, and also that when it grows it's a long creature. Check the centaur for details.

[monkman]

i changed it and is it an unusual creature for determining armor price? if so then i'll add that two

[monkman]

War Troll(Prc)

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War troll(Prc)
HD=d12
Special: Need 5 lv of the troll class
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Bonus feat, +1str +1con

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|+1str +1con, Forged by magic

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con, Improved Regeneration,

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con, bonus feat

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con, dazing blow

6th|

+6

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|+1str +1con , bonus feat

7th|

+7

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|+1str +1con,Master Of the dazing blow[/table]

Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills spot, listen, climb, jump, swim, knowledge(war), intimidate, ride, tumble

Proefeciencies: All simple weapons, martials weapons, light and medium armor, light and heavy sheilds

Bonus feat: a war troll can select a feat from the fighters bonus feat and war troll lvs count as fighter lvs for selecting feats

Forged by Magic (Ex): War Trolls are engineered by powerful arcane spellcasters to be unstoppable engines of war. At 2th level, a War Troll gains Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 its HD, this damage reduction is penetrated by adamantine. Additionally, these spellcasters made the War Troll especially resistant to magic; war Trolls have Spell Resistance equal to their HD + 11.

Dazing blow A war troll can use this ablilty 1 time per day per HD.This ability is a might swing that dazes the opponent unless he make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 lv+str modifier.This ability is considered a free action, the war troll may only use this ability one time per round and the war troll declares this ability before the attack . Troll and war troll lvs stack for this ability.

Improved Regeneration: Equal to his HD. Acid and fire deal normal damage to a war troll. If a war troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 2d4 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Master Of the dazing blowThis ability funtions like dazing blow but the war troll is now able to use dazing blow servral times a round.He gains 5 additional uses per day and he is able to declare it after his attack rolls are rolled.

I missing abilityes for lvs 3,5 and 6. Suggestions and/or comments?

[Draken]

Hmm... All of the War Troll's stuff, perhaps? Dazing Blow (5th level), Scent 1st level), Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction (2nd level, push regeneration to 3rd level).

Also Wartroll's are not vulnerable to fire, at all. Base land speed should be 40 feet too.

And it is missing like... Six more levels. I just checked that.

[AustontheGreat1]

War Troll

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War troll
HD=d12

{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|troll body, +1str +1con

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|Regeneration, +1str +1con

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|Growth, +1str +1con

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con

6th|

+6

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|+1str +1con[/table]

Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills spot, listen, climb, jump, swim, knowledge(war), intimidate, ride, tumble

Proefeciencies: All simple weapons, martials weapons, light and medium armor, light and heavy sheilds

Troll body: the war troll loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits, a base speed of 30 feet, two claw attacks and one bite attack dealing 1d4 damage each. He also gains a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier

Regeneration: Equal to half his HD. Acid deal normal damage, but fire deals 1.5X the damage to a war troll. If a war troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 2d4 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Growth:The war troll grows to large size.His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties

I missing abilityes for lvs 3,5 and 6. Suggestions and/or comments?

Just make the war-troll a prestige class. Add more strength over the additional layers, remove their vulnerability to fire and perhaps throw in some war hulk-esque abilities.

[monkman]

should i put that you have to have some troll lvs first or should i put it to be more like a war hulk?

[Kobold-Bard]

Awakened Gelatinous Cube



Class

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Hit Dice: d10
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+2|Acid, Iconic Body, +1 Con
2|+2|+3|+0|+2|Engulf, Holy Cr*p Where Did You Come From?, Paralysis, +1 Con
3|+3|+3|+1|+2|Bud, Hypercube, +1 Con[/table]

Class Skills: (2+Int/level, x4 at Level 1) Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Move Silently, Search

Proficiencies: Gelatinous Cubes are only proficient with their own natural attacks.

Class Features:

Iconic Body (Ex): The Gelatinous Cube is a legend amongst adventurers and scholars alike. At first level it loses it's racial traits and features and gains the Ooze type and the following Ooze traits:

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- Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
- Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
- Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
- Oozes eat and breathe, but do not sleep.

It is Medium size with a land speed of 20ft.

It gains a slam attack that deals 1d4+Str damage+acid (see below). It also has a natural armour bonus equal to it's Con Score.
It has neither eyes, mouth nor a brain in the traditional sense, but to make up for this it gains Blindsight 60ft, and is immune to Mind Affecting effects. It can also "speak" by vibrating itself to create soundwaves that mimic speech.

It is incapable of fine manipulation, but can extend a tendril of goo and use it as a hand (assuming the thing it touches can resist it's acid/paralysis (see below).
Gelatinous Cubes may use magic items by engulfing them into bubbles that protect them from it's acid. It may only absorb one item for each body slot eg. if it absorbed a Cloak of Charisma and then tried to absorb a Cloak of Resistance, the Cloak of Charisma would be wrecked by it's acid.

Acid (Ex): Gelatinous Cubes endlessly excrete a corrosive acid. Any creature hit with it's slam attack, is engulfed by it or makes contact with it at all is dealt 1d6+1d6/2 additional HD acid damage.
This acid can be applied to objects/surfaces by touching them, an ignores 5 points of hardness/HD, melting the object/surface away is it loses hit points.
The acid has no effect on metal or stone.

Holy Cr*p, Where Did You Come From (Ex): Gelatinous Cubes are specialist hunters. Generally they have a green or blue tinge to their mass, but as an immediate action useable at will they can make that fade to near perfect translucency, granting themselves a form of crude all-purpose camoflague.
They gain a racial Hide bonus equal to their HD, which doubles as long as they take no actions besides move actions. They do not need cover or any other factors to use this ability, and may move their full speed without penalty to the Hide checks.
Any creature that fails to spot the Gelatinous Cube and enters it's space is automatically Engulfed with no Attack of Opportunity or Save.

Engulf (Ex): Although it moves slowly, a gelatinous cube can simply mow down creatures of it's size or smaller as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The gelatinous cube merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the cube, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2HD+Str Mod) or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body.

Paralysis (Ex): A gelatinous cube secretes an anesthetizing slime. A target hit by a cube’s melee or engulf attack must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con Mod) or be paralyzed for 1d6+1/4HD rounds. The cube can automatically engulf a paralyzed opponent.

Stat Boosts: At each level the Gelatinous Cube gains +1 Con.

Hypercube (Ex): At third level it becomes a Gelatinous Hypercube, Lord of All Oozes. It grows to large size and it's slam now deals 1d6+Str+acid.
As a Hypercube, is no longer vulnerable to the effects of the Ring of Ooze Riding.
It also gains Electric Resistance equal to 1/HD, which becomes full Immunity at 15HD.

Bud (Ex): 1/day for each 3HD it has the Gelatinous Hypercube may bud off a portion of it's mass, granting it a semblance of the sentience it posesses.
Budding requires a full round action and the resulting "stub cube" uses the elite array and is a Gelatinous Cube of the creator's HD-2 (though they never gain their own Bud ability), except it is Small size (20ft land speed, 1d3+Str+acid slam damage), becoming Medium at 4HD.
After the three Gelatinous Cube Levels they gain generic Ooze HD (d10HD, Good BAB, Good Fort & Will Saves, 2 skill points/level with the Gelatinous Cube class skills). For the first of generic HD and for every two generic HD they gain one of these abilities:

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Fly speed doubling land speed with Good Maneouverability.
Swim Speed doubling land speed.
DR 1/2HD/magic & bludgeoning.
SR 10+HD.
Fast Healing 1/2HD.
Slam gains +1 enhancement bonus/4HD.
+1/2HD insight bonus to AC.
+2 enhancement bonus to stat of creator's choice.
1/2HD resistance to any one element.
Slam attack harms incorporeal targets.
Slam attack takes on one material or alignment quality.

It will obey commands from it's creator to the best of it's abilities, and if left without instruction it will move in random directions until it comes across organic material, at which point it will use it's Holy Cr*p... ability and move to engage them.

Stub Cubes last for 1 hour before melting into a pool of acid that covers a single 5ft square and deals 1d6 acid damage to any creature that makes contact with it, becoming inert after 3 rounds. The creator may intentionally melt it's Stubs as a free action.

Comments

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A monster very close to my heart, the Gelatinous Cube.

The acid as well as the Engulf & Paralysis DCs now all increase.

Hypercube is to differentiate it from normal cubes and to make up for the fact that it's a cube of goop with nothing too special otherwise (an also means another player/enemy can't jump into it and use it as a mount).

Bud is something based on their reproducion methods according to Wikipedia.

I'm sure I've done something wrong so feel free to let me know.

[monkman]

one commment why would you have adamanine DR? please explain

[Kobold-Bard]

one commment why would you have adamanine DR? please explain

Wanted to make it scale between magic and epic so I picked a material. Think I should get rid of it?

Edit: Removed it, didn't add it until the very end anyway.

[AustontheGreat1]

should i put that you have to have some troll lvs first or should i put it to be more like a war hulk?

Well, there is already a troll class, one of the first posted by Oslecamo; that class gives you 5 of your levels. Just make a 7 level prestige class that requires 5 levels in the troll monster class. Over those 7 levels, throw in the stuff that the War-Troll has that the regular troll doesn't (such as DR, Resistance to fire, SR, Dazing Blow.) The War-Troll has some more strength, and specializes in combat with weapons and armor, specifically magical weapons and armor.

You can forget that War Hulk stuff, I just through that out there off the top of my head. It doesn't actually fit the War Troll concept. It's almost the opposite actually. The entire theme behind the War-Troll is refining it from monster to warrior, throw in abilities that represent that.

[monkman]

Well, there is already a troll class, one of the first posted by Oslecamo; that class gives you 5 of your levels. Just make a 7 level prestige class that requires 5 levels in the troll monster class. Over those 7 levels, throw in the stuff that the War-Troll has that the regular troll doesn't (such as DR, Resistance to fire, SR, Dazing Blow.) The War-Troll has some more strength, and specializes in combat with weapons and armor, specifically magical weapons and armor.

You can forget that War Hulk stuff, I just through that out there off the top of my head.

should i put like +2str at every odd lv, and what do you think should be the DR? also is dazing blow(the way i made it) acceptable or is it under/overpowerd.

[Oslecamo]

Wanted to make it scale between magic and epic so I picked a material. Think I should get rid of it?

Edit: Removed it, didn't add it until the very end anyway.

Since when do gelatinous cubes have DR to begin with anyway? Remove it alltogheter please. And the fast healing.

Remove the random energy resistances, it's only immune to electrecity.

Remove str bonus (they have base 10 Str!), give con bonus at every level, give an extra ability for extra HP to represent their great resilience. Also clear up what items they can and cannot use.

State that they don't need to take any specific action or even cover to hide, and they can move at full speed whitout penalty on it.

Bud too weak, they quickly become uselss for being too weak/slow/don't flying, either allow it to make stronger buds or remove it alltogheter.

Finally clear up the ooze traits it gains.

monkman:Ability bonus are all just +1 except sometimes at 1st level of a class.

Clear it up that it's a Prc on the name.

Your dazing blow is kinda weak. Make Save DC equal to 10+1/2+Con modifier, then make it useable 1/day per HD as a free action, applying to one round of attacks per use.

Their DR is adamantine.

[monkman]

would it be okay to put some feats, like improved toughness, power attack ,cleave, maybe a bonus feat or two? if so which ones and at what lv?

[AustontheGreat1]

War Troll(Prc)

Spoiler

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War troll(Prc)
HD=d12
Special: Need 5 lv of the troll class
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|troll body, +1str +1con

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|damage reduction , +1str +1con, spell resitance

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con,regeneration,

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|Growth, +1str +1con

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|+1str +1con, dazing blow

6th|

+6

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|+1str +1con

7th|

+7

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|+1str +1con[/table]

Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills spot, listen, climb, jump, swim, knowledge(war), intimidate, ride, tumble

Proefeciencies: All simple weapons, martials weapons, light and medium armor, light and heavy sheilds

Troll body: the war troll loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits, a base speed of 40 feet, two claw attacks and one bite attack dealing 1d4 damage each. He also gains a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier

Damage reductionAt second lv a war troll gets a DR of 5/admatium. For every two HD a war troll gains 1 more point of DR.

Spell resitance A war troll gain SP equal to his HD

Dazing blow A war troll can use this ablilty 1 time per day per HD.This ability is a might swing that dazes the opponent unless he make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 lv+con modifier.This ability is considered a free action and the war troll may only use this ability one time per round . Troll and war troll lvs stack for this ability

Regeneration: Equal to his HD. Acid deal normal damageto a war troll. If a war troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 2d4 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Growth:The war troll grows to large size.His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties

I missing abilityes for lvs 3,5 and 6. Suggestions and/or comments?

Many of the abilities you have are redundant, meaning that the War Troll is gaining very little as he takes the class. First of all I would remove Troll Body, Regeneration, and Growth. Then wrap the DR and SR into one abilities, something like:

Forged by Magic (Ex): War Trolls are engineered by powerful arcane spellcasters to be unstoppable engines of war. At Xth level, a War Troll gains Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 its HD, this damage reduction is penetrated by adamantine. Additionally, these spellcasters made the War Troll especially resistant to magic; war Trolls have Spell Resistance equal to their HD + 11.

Change the DC on Dazing blow to 10 + 1/2 HD + Strength Modifier, as strength should be the trolls highest attribute.

You took out regeneration so you need to add something in something about it only having one elemental penetrate its Regeneration. Something like:

Overcome Weakness (Ex): War Trolls are more tenacious than your average trolls (which is really quite something if you think about it) and can overcome one of their regeneration's two flaws. At Xth level, the War Troll chooses one element which overcomes his regeneration (usually, fire or acid.) The damage chosen no longer penetrates the War Troll's regeneration.
I just thought of letting them choose, if it isn't appropriate then stick with fire.

would it be okay to put some feats, like improved toughness, power attack ,cleave, maybe a bonus feat or two? if so which ones and at what lv?

+1 Str and Con per level is where I would put it. Either that or +1 Str per level and +1 Con ever other level if the former was too much.

Feats are a good idea, if you do that, just give them bonus feats like a fighter. That or my favorite thing to do is make some custom abilities. Whatever it is, they need to represent the War Troll slowly gaining master over skilled combat.

Your doing really good, you just need to see what the troll has already given you and build on that.

[monkman]

You took out regeneration so you need to add something in something about it only having one elemental penetrate its Regeneration. Something like:

Overcome Weakness (Ex): War Trolls are more tenacious than your average trolls (which is really quite something if you think about it) and can overcome one of their regeneration's two flaws. At Xth level, the War Troll chooses one element which overcomes his regeneration (usually, fire or acid.) The damage chosen no longer penetrates the War Troll's regeneration.
I just thought of letting them choose, if it isn't appropriate then stick with fire.

this is troll regeneration

Regeneration: Equal to half his HD. Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump

so technically if i do that i am giving them weakness,
on other note i made the regeneration = to HD and i put that it takes 2d4 minutes to regenerate a limb
i am making a war troll so shouldn't we make mountain,cave, crysaline, and other trolls

[Volthawk]

i am making a war troll so shouldn't we make mountain,cave, crysaline, and other trolls

Suppose I could take on a few of them.

[monkman]

moutain would be the huge troll and would resemble a barbarian(MM3)
crystaline would get alot of DR(MM3)
cave would jump and ponce on people and maybe be kinda stealty(MM3)
forest would have some druid/ranger ability(MM3)
battleragers would resemble war hulks (MM5)

[Oslecamo]

Suppose I could take on a few of them.

Notice however only the war troll is based on trolls, the others are diferent species and thus should be designed as base classes.

Speaking of wich...

Gorgondantess: How's the Hunter coming along? The week deadline kinda ended yesterday. If you don't make the hunter I will as I've been reading the folklore and really want to see it done now.

[AustontheGreat1]

Suppose I could take on a few of them.

I was actually just looking at that. With the exception of forest, the troll subraces all have CRs higher than the original troll. I would take the same route as the War troll and just do prestige classes.

Then I thought about forest troll and my first idea was a reverse prestige class that makes you weaker but gives you a level. I then proceeded to confuse myself and realized that that idea was stupid and didn't make any sense and that I really shouldn't try to think to much when I'm on Percocet (it's prescription, I'm not a druggy or anything.)

I'm now confused as to why I even typed all this up, as it will inevitably make me look even more incompetent...

[Volthawk]

Notice however only the war troll is based on trolls, the others are diferent species and thus should be designed as base classes.

Yep, that's how I'm doing it. Working on the forest troll at the moment. For the fast healing (forest trolls don't have regeneration), would half HD be an alright value?