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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Best things from the Worst Places

    Now a lot of the time in my time lurking these forums (Which hasn't been tremendously long) I see people mentioning how 'Oh, Miniature's Handbook was terrible' or 'Savage Species is awful and full of worthless ineffective fluff'.
    I want to make a thread dedicated to Ansehelm, a demigod in one of the games I DM who believed that good things could come from bad things.

    I ask you this playgrounders: What good things have come from all those terrible books? What are the redeeming qualities? What should we look for if we ever come across one of those books.

    Examples: [I can update this section]
    Factorum from Dungeonscape
    Immediate/Swift Actions from Miniature's Handbook
    Shivering Touch Spell from Frostburn.

    TL;DR:
    Replies should probably cover:
    Which book you think is bad.
    Why you think it is bad.
    What redeeming qualities it has.
    6 Ranks in Perform (Cannon)
    5 Ranks in Disable Plot Device

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Weapons of Legacy
    Reason It's Terrible: Clunky mechanics, weapons that make you weaker as you level up.
    Awesomesauce: Legacy Champion, for all the shenanigans it can pull off (love that Legacy Hellfire Glaivelock).
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    gallagher's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Book: Weapons of Legacy
    Reason It's Terrible: Clunky mechanics, weapons that make you weaker as you level up.
    Awesomesauce: Legacy Champion, for all the shenanigans it can pull off (love that Legacy Hellfire Glaivelock).
    Book of Exalted Cheese, due to the Vows, which are terrible and not worth your time.

    they do have vassal of Bahamut is soooo flavorful... i really like playing one, and i am toying around with having levels of it in my devoted tracker build
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3SecondCultist View Post
    ...

    You're just going to start randomly setting things on fire, aren't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    ...

    This entire campaign's going to become nothing but partying in a long forgotten world, isn't it?
    At present I am playing Sir Theo Roost, who rides Ardaionn the Giant Eagle and wields the newly improved Sword of Tariel

    Avatar by Szilard

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Tome of Magic
    Reason It's Terrible: Shadow Magic is underwhelming for the investment one make in it. Truenaming took our collective hopes & raped them before our tear-filled eyes.
    Awesomesauce: Binders are pretty cool, & the Truenaming concept was so cool that multiple homebrew fixes exist to un-rape the mechanics.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Complete Psionics
    Reason it's terrible: I have only glanced it, but it gets a lot of bad rap on the forum.
    Awesomesauce: Argent. Linked Power. Being a supplement focused on psionics.
    Quotes:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ignition's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Epic Level Handbook
    Reason It's Terrible: Epic magic creation is made from the notes of a gibbering insane man who read the Necronomicon while hooked up to an I.V. full of sherbert. Also, everything else.
    Awesomesauce: The Atropol - stillborn god-child uber-lich. It's stuff like this that make me think the Epic Level Handbook was in reality a parody disguised as a sourcebook.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gort, Lord of Hellfire
    Pah! No door will stand in the path of Gort!
    Avatar is "Red King" Gort, shamelessly ripped from Darken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainKing
    You're a horribly person
    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    This is actually really good advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    Nobody expects the Usurpation!


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Otogi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Gamma World d20
    Reason It's Terrible: Poor mechanics, frequently seems forget it's own rules, very sparse, numerous errors, a small list of unexciting mutations, you need another book (maybe two) to even play, d20 Apocalypse is WAY better for shorter length and art, Omega World even more so and finally it drives away from the very notion of having a wacky-whazoo game (a staple of a lot of Gamma World adventures).
    Awesomesauce: The idea of having towns act like players is pretty cool, and combined with the mass combat and minion rules in M&M supplements make for very badass and epic scenarios. Also the nanotech is pretty new to the PA scene and it's one of the only systems to work alright (even though the specialist class sucks for it).

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FMArthur's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Cityscape
    Reason It's Terrible: Appears to only give only a handful of feats and a tiny trickle of spells to players, with the majority of the book dedicated to showing DMs how to make much more work for themselves than necessary.
    Awesomesauce: Invisible Spell is a +0 metamagic that makes the whole spell invisible - opening up tons of clever improvised solutions to casters. But that's nothing compared to its Web Enhancements, which are superior to the whole book by a large amount and offer lots of cool options for players that aren't exclusive to urban environments.

    Sure, Web Enhancements aren't a reason to buy the book, but they certainly make its mere existance a wonderful thing. Some third edition books just should never have been made at all...
    Last edited by FMArthur; 2010-08-24 at 06:56 PM.
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Reason It's Terrible: If I have to tell you, then you're better off not knowing.
    Awesomesauce: It's probably THE BEST-WORST BOOK EVAR!!1!!11!. And so it is an auto-include whenever anybody makes lists and such.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Book of Exalted Deeds
    Reason It's Terrible: Stupid, stupid, stupid. The book that was supposed to be about how to understand true good declared that all poison is evil, but then gave us "ravages," which are exactly like poison except good, and declared that that one Always Lawful Good creature that's poisonous is now ravageous. Much of the mechanics were also in that vein, taking things from the Book of Vile Darkness and then awkwardly flipping them into holy versions. It had awful morality (PELOR REFUSED TO HELP KILL A VAMPIRE THAT MURDERED A PALADIN'S FAMILY. BECAUSE THE PALADIN WAS TOO ANGRY. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO REFLECT WELL ON PELOR), mostly disappointing PrCs, meh feats, questionable characters (WHY DOES THE ARCHANGEL WHO HAS AN ORDER OF ASSASSINS HAVE NO STEALTH?), even more questionable fluff (WHY ARE THERE MAUSOLEUMS IN HEAVEN?), and plenty of brokenness. Oh, and everything on Chaotic Good seemed thrown in as an afterthought.
    Awesomesauce: The Champion of Gwynharwyf makes up for the book's heavy focus on stick-up-the-rear law, Sanctified spells are fun, flavorful, and often actually worth using, and some of the monsters are actually pretty awesome. Having the Upper Planes mapped out beyond "Mountains, trees, shininess" is quite useful. And Ancestral Relic is like legacy weapons, except it works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Book: Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Reason It's Terrible: If I have to tell you, then you're better off not knowing.
    Awesomesauce: It's probably THE BEST-WORST BOOK EVAR!!1!!11!. And so it is an auto-include whenever anybody makes lists and such.
    I'll correct that for you.
    Book: Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Reason It's Terrible: If I have to tell you, then you're better off not knowing.
    Awesomesauce: "Love Life of an Ooze: One Ooze. Idiot Hits Ooze. Two Oozes." Best quote from any book I've ever seen.

    My submission...
    Book: Complete Champion
    Reason It's Terrible: Complete lack of balance, poor proofreading.
    Awesomesauce: Pounce for melee, Knowledge Devotion, and a few other gems give non-ToB melee a solid leg up. It just came too little, too late.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Book: Book of Exalted Deeds
    Reason It's Terrible: Stupid, stupid, stupid. The book that was supposed to be about how to understand true good declared that all poison is evil, but then gave us "ravages," which are exactly like poison except good, and declared that that one Always Lawful Good creature that's poisonous is now ravageous.
    Technically- it didn't- but it did say you can collect couatl venom and "purify it" to create the ravage "Purified Couatl Venom".

    I agree that the whole "poison is evil because it causes extreme, excessive suffering" is pretty stupid though- and drop it, citing The Sage's discussion of Ninjas, which says there is nothing inherently evil about poison use.

    Ravages only really make sense in the context of "friendly fire" situations- when taking down a monster which has Dominate Person or similar, you want weapons which won't do as much harm when turned against you.

    BoED's morality sections can be very hit-and-miss- but I do like the emphasis on mercy and redemption.

    Other books:

    Book: MM2
    Reason It's Terrible: Horrible art in places, horribly unbalanced monsters (Adamantine Horror especially)
    Awesomesauce: Some of the art is exceptionally good, as are some monsters
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    I love the ideas behind legacy items, I just think the book horribly executed a potentially good idea.
    In my games the world tends not to be full of magic-marts and players won't really have the option to just pick the items they own unless they go through effort. Usually what acts as a substitute is a player finding an item with a history.
    I may be incorporating some legacy item style rules, but I'll try a bit more to balance and fix them. [The -1/2/3 to skill checks is crippling compared to giving up a level 1 spell slot as a sorcerer]

    Book: Weapons of Legacy
    Reason It's Terrible: For its murder of the loregasm potential.
    Awesomesauce: Showing how you shouldn't make your weapons of legacy. The weapons of legacy aren't too bad, and if your DM lets you magic mart, some of the items in the book are somewhat worth it.

    Sarcasm:
    Book: Spell Compendium
    Reason It's Terrible: Its 50-60$ for a hardcopy
    Awesomesauce: Oh wait, this is actually an amazing book... its just terribly expensive.

    To the BOEF folk, you obviously have not read Nymphology... it has some hilarious spells ranging from illusionary harems to genital targetting ray attacks...

    Submission:
    Book: Savage Species
    Reason It's Terrible: Ritual Cheese that can break the game (Wish and the Word), excessive and downright useless prestige classes, lots and lots of poorly done fluff...
    Awesomesauce: Survivor Prestige Class for being unique, flavorful and interesting. Has a few good spells in it and then some not terrible feats that let you up energy resistance of a type, or improve your character if they are abnormal. [Not optimization quality good spells or feats, but they could be done ALOT worse]. The templates aren't terrible and the book was just trying to straighten some rules for the more eccentric folk as opposed to making radical claims like BoED
    6 Ranks in Perform (Cannon)
    5 Ranks in Disable Plot Device

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    Book: Complete Champion
    Reason It's Terrible: Complete lack of balance, poor proofreading.
    Awesomesauce: Pounce for melee, Knowledge Devotion, and a few other gems give non-ToB melee a solid leg up. It just came too little, too late.
    And let us not forget Battle Blessing.
    Quotes:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mongoose87's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    And let us not forget Battle Blessing.
    And Ordained Champion, one of the few PrCs good enough to lose CL over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Which book you think is bad: dragon Magazine compendium vol 1?
    Why you think it is bad:most of it, including the races, most of the classes, and feats. the fact that there wasnt a possibility of redeeming it with a volume 2
    What redeeming qualities it has:battle dancer and jester, critical hit and fumble charts
    Join the bard defense league


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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Drow of the Underdark

    Only redeeming factor was fantastic (and sometimes downright sexy) art and the Constant and Dutiful Guardian feats, two of my favorites.

    It's a personal thing. I found the whole Salvatore mythos of the Drow society to be ridiculous bordering on parody. Loves me my Eberron Drow. Scorpion themed jungle tribes for the win. A society based on chaos and evil isn't a society at all, and saying it works because it's ancient and matriarchal feels like a giant, spider-shaped, sun-fearing lampshade.
    Was HP before HP was cool.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    A society based on chaos and evil isn't a society at all, and saying it works because it's ancient and matriarchal feels like a giant, spider-shaped, sun-fearing lampshade.
    To me personally, the fridge logic is, that it only works as a society because Lolth actively wills it to be. But I'm getting off-topic...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dsmiles's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: BoVD
    Reason it's Terrible: Because it promotes the "Evil is Cool" mindset.
    Awesomesauce: Two words: Angelwing Razor.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ernir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Stronghold Builder's Guide.
    Reason It's Terrible: Using the book "as intended" (meaning, not taking your stronghold with you into the dungeon) invariably makes your character a weaker combatant. Generally poorly balanced.
    Awesomesauce:
    Using it turns your characters from a bunch of Murderous Rampaging Hobos into respectable landowners. And as oddly as the thing is designed, it gives you a lot of freedom in how to build a castle. Contains a whole bunch of ideas, comments, and suggestions on castle building I'd never have thought of otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    Drow of the Underdark

    Only redeeming factor was fantastic (and sometimes downright sexy) art and the Constant and Dutiful Guardian feats, two of my favorites.

    It's a personal thing. I found the whole Salvatore mythos of the Drow society to be ridiculous bordering on parody. Loves me my Eberron Drow. Scorpion themed jungle tribes for the win. A society based on chaos and evil isn't a society at all, and saying it works because it's ancient and matriarchal feels like a giant, spider-shaped, sun-fearing lampshade.
    DotU also has the Fearsome armor enhancement (awesome), the Imperious Command feat (awesome), the Bracers of Murder wondrous item (cool and satisfying to use) and a few possibly useful ACFs for base classes.
    Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.

    My sarcasm is never blue.

    Personal stuff: The Diablo 2 game (DMing), BBCode syntax highlighter for KDE
    CharOp: Lists of Necessary Magic Items
    Homebrew: My proudest achievement, a translation of vancian spellcasting to psionic mechanics. Other brew can be found in my Homebrewer's Extended Signature.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Boef
    Terrible: It's a book about sex in dnd, not exactly a mature topic.
    Reason it's good: It actually treats it as mature, and with somewhat of a respectful tone?
    Reason it's awesome: I now have a chart to roll against when my silly players decide to get laid in the tavern with random girls.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    Book: Boef
    Terrible: It's a book about sex in dnd, not exactly a mature topic.
    Reason it's good: It actually treats it as mature, and with somewhat of a respectful tone?
    Reason it's awesome: I now have a chart to roll against when my silly players decide to get laid in the tavern with random girls.
    That is why I have the PDF...

    dsmiles, you're statement is proof towards the 'Evil is Cool' statement that book totes.

    I really liked stronghold builders guide. It isn't a rulebook, its a guide and I think it did that really well.
    A good amount of the 'meh' books fall into the 'Well its not TERRIBLE, more of just rules for in case players/your into this'. I'll take Savage Species or Weapons of Legacy or Draconomicon every time over blatant Cheese.
    6 Ranks in Perform (Cannon)
    5 Ranks in Disable Plot Device

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Book: Serpent Kingdoms
    Why it's Horrible: One Word: Sarrukh.
    Awesomesauce: Yuan-ti are really neat, and the book did a lot to expand on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Silver Marches

    By and large, I found the book useless and rather boring. For a realm book, especially focusing on the most written about locale in forgotten realms, the history and description was simply uninteresting despite being the bulk of the material. As well, the PrCs, monsters, etc., are largely a disappointment, giving me perhaps the least amount of material I would ever employ.

    Telkoun's Tower. Just enjoy this little random location for whatever reason, and from the tower I have created four or five small wizard tower sessions to my campaigns which are usually huge highlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantharion View Post
    That is why I have the PDF...

    dsmiles, you're statement is proof towards the 'Evil is Cool' statement that book totes.

    I really liked stronghold builders guide. It isn't a rulebook, its a guide and I think it did that really well.
    A good amount of the 'meh' books fall into the 'Well its not TERRIBLE, more of just rules for in case players/your into this'. I'll take Savage Species or Weapons of Legacy or Draconomicon every time over blatant Cheese.
    Let's just say the stronghold builders guide quickly becomes mainstay among my players when I actually start charging them for using the inns and such, and roll the random encounters whenever they sleep outside. Sometimes having a place that is just your own is just...well...useful. That's why you don't see people doing things in the real world like renting a hotel room 365 days of the year.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantharion View Post
    dsmiles, you're statement is proof towards the 'Evil is Cool' statement that book totes.
    Not quite sure I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in there.

    EDIT:
    @Morithias: When you start charging them for the inns they're sleeping in? Don't inns always cost money to sleep in? (Unless, of course, you're Superman, then they pay you to stay there.)
    Last edited by dsmiles; 2010-08-25 at 02:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    That's why you don't see people doing things in the real world like renting a hotel room 365 days of the year.
    Except when they're filthy rich, like higher level D&D characters.

    DMG had optional upkeep rules there somewhere, and it prized good food, stylish clothing and comfortable lodgings at 100 gp a month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Not quite sure I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in there.

    EDIT:
    @Morithias: When you start charging them for the inns they're sleeping in? Don't inns always cost money to sleep in? (Unless, of course, you're Superman, then they pay you to stay there.)
    Well often it's a very small amount, so the PHB amounts are really only bad at low levels, but I tend to scale it a bit. A run down shack in a thorp where the most common coin is copper isn't going to cost the same as the biggest and most expensive inn in the capital city with a money limit in the millions.

    Go look up what a hotel in a small city costs, during a low demand time. Then go look up a hotel in the middle of Orlando during tourist season. That will basically sum it up.

    Plus it's often such a small amount....we tend to ignore it. I really only use it when they start doing the "wizard it out of his 1/day metamagic combo let us sleep"
    Last edited by Morithias; 2010-08-25 at 03:02 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    I'll correct that for you.
    Book: Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Reason It's Terrible: If I have to tell you, then you're better off not knowing.
    Awesomesauce: "Love Life of an Ooze: One Ooze. Idiot Hits Ooze. Two Oozes." Best quote from any book I've ever seen.
    Miss is also a neat little spell with some fun play potential. Why it didn't exist until the ol' Book of Teenagers is anyone's guess.



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    <Flickerdart> So theoretically the master vampire can control three bonused dire weasels, who in turn each control five sub-weasels
    <Flickerdart> The sub-weasels can each control two other sub-weasels
    <Flickerdart> It's like a pyramid scheme, except the payoff is bleeding to death!

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    Default Re: Best things from the Worst Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Caphi View Post
    Miss is also a neat little spell with some fun play potential. Why it didn't exist until the ol' Book of Teenagers is anyone's guess.
    The giantblood template, metamagic shaper. Seriously we use the templates and classes that aren't sex based in the book more than we use the sex stuff. It's like buying the horror book and ignoring all the horror stuff just because you wanted a divine wizard XD

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