Dips Dips Dips Dips

[thompur]

Hello Playgrounders. I was pondering the practice of dipping into a class for specific class features to complete a character concept. I've always been amused by the TO characters that are "Class X 4/Class Y 2/ Class Z 3/
PrC A 3/PrC B 5/ Class X 3".

I started thinking about how many 1 level 'dips' can you start with and remain relatively viable.

Now obviously, 20 one level dips would be, not only unwieldy, but ultimately pretty weak. But how many levels could you go before you really needed to pick a class and stick to it? What classes have the most useful 1st level class features?

In no particular order, I would say Warblade, Swordsage, Warlock, Binder, Bard, Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Druid and Truenamer(just kidding).

What would you start with, and how far would you go?

[Prime32]

IIRC someone once made a build with no more than 1 level in any class, which still got 9th level spells (though you could say that PrCs which advance spellcasting are "cheating" at this).

Just make sure you use fractional BAB/saves, or things get weird (20th level characters with +0 BAB and +40 Fort anyone?).

[Boci]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...+rogue+fighter

[Greenish]

One of the big, bad diplomancers I've seen had just one-level dips. Then again, it was only level 9 or so because that was enough to be able to turn anyone into a fanatic with a standard action.

Not that it's all TO. Making a noncaster in a game where multiclassing penalties are enforced often looks quite patchwork-y.

[Draz74]

One of the big, bad diplomancers I've seen had just one-level dips. Then again, it was only level 9 or so because that was enough to be able to turn anyone into a fanatic with a standard action.

Up to Level 4 or 5, an optimized Diplomancer is pretty much required to dip a new class each level.

[kestrel404]

I've redone this build a few times. Here's my latest version. It has 9th level divine spells, 7th level arcane spells, and caster levels that put the Word build to shame.

Spoiler

Show

Race: Male Half-Drow
Abilities:
str 8
dex 8
con 10
int 16
wis 16
cha 15
{table=head]Level|Class|Feats|Casting class increase
1st|Bard|Spell Focus(Conjuration)|Bard 1
2nd|Half Elf Paragon|Endurace|
3rd|Conjurer|Iron Will, Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots)|Wizard 1
4th|Spellthief||Spellthief 1
5th|Drow Paragon||Wizard 2
6th|Unseen Seer|Spell Focus(Evil)|Wizard 3
7th|Wildrunner||
8th|Master Specialist||Wizard 4
9th|Ruathar|Open Least Chakra(Feet)|Wizard 5
10th|Ur-Priest||UP 1
11th|Sublime Chord||SC 1
12th|Focluchan Lyrist|Master Spellthief|UP2 SC2
13|Mystic Theurge||UP3 SC3
14|Arcane Hierophant||UP4 SC4
15|Seeker of the Misty Isle|Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)|UP5
16|Fatespinner||UP6
17|Geomancer||UP7
18|Thaumaturgist|Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)|UP8
19|Wayfarer Guide||UP9
20|Mindbender||SC5
[/table]

Casting:
Add 1 orange ioun stone, it makes the math easier.
Wizard 5th level casting (Up to 3rd level spells), CL10 base, CL20 modified by sublime chord
Sublime Chord 5th level casting (Up to 7th level spells), CL20
-This sets the caster level of all arcane casting classes to 20
Bard 1st level casting, CL 20
Spellthief steal 0&1 level spells, CL20
-Master spellthief CL is added to all other arcane CLs, Making all arcane castin classes but spellthief CL40
Urpriest casting 9th level (9th level divine spells), CL 9+(140/2)+1=CL80

[Greenish]

I've redone this build a few times. Here's my latest version. It has 9th level divine spells, 7th level arcane spells, and caster levels that put the Word build to shame.

Spoiler

Show

Race: Male Half-Drow
Abilities:
str 8
dex 8
con 10
int 16
wis 16
cha 15
{table=head]Level|Class|Feats|Casting class increase
1st|Bard|Spell Focus(Conjuration)|Bard 1
2nd|Half Elf Paragon|Endurace|
3rd|Conjurer|Iron Will, Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots)|Wizard 1
4th|Spellthief||Spellthief 1
5th|Drow Paragon||Wizard 2
6th|Unseen Seer|Spell Focus(Evil)|Wizard 3
7th|Wildrunner||
8th|Master Specialist||Wizard 4
9th|Ruathar|Open Least Chakra(Feet)|Wizard 5
10th|Ur-Priest||UP 1
11th|Sublime Chord||SC 1
12th|Focluchan Lyrist|Master Spellthief|UP2 SC2
13|Mystic Theurge||UP3 SC3
14|Arcane Hierophant||UP4 SC4
15|Seeker of the Misty Isle|Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)|UP5
16|Fatespinner||UP6
17|Geomancer||UP7
18|Thaumaturgist|Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)|UP8
19|Wayfarer Guide||UP9
20|Mindbender||SC5
[/table]

Casting:
Add 1 orange ioun stone, it makes the math easier.
Wizard 5th level casting (Up to 3rd level spells), CL10 base, CL20 modified by sublime chord
Sublime Chord 5th level casting (Up to 7th level spells), CL20
-This sets the caster level of all arcane casting classes to 20
Bard 1st level casting, CL 20
Spellthief steal 0&1 level spells, CL20
-Master spellthief CL is added to all other arcane CLs, Making all arcane castin classes but spellthief CL40
Urpriest casting 9th level (9th level divine spells), CL 9+(140/2)+1=CL80

Beautiful. Impulse Boots was the 'meld that granted Evasion, right?

[mobdrazhar]

here is a thread i started about a casting and a fighter 1 dip build that got some decent builds.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157446

[kestrel404]

Beautiful. Impulse Boots was the 'meld that granted Evasion, right?

Yup. I wish I could find more dual-progression classes, but I'm only just starting to look into world-specific sourcebooks, and I don't use Dragon/3rd party material.

[Keld Denar]

The thing is, the most diptastic builds tend to be non-casters. Most casters tend to be BaseclassX/PrC1A/PrC2B/PrC3C etc. Non-casters tend to dip around a bit more, because they are only dependant on such a base concept as BAB. They also tend to be a lot more frontloaded than caster stuff. 1-2 levels of Barbarian with the Extra Rage feat gives you 9/10th of the cool things that Barbarians get over their whole career. 1-2 levels of Fighter allow you to quickly pick up a couple good feats you need to complete concept X or get into PrC Y. 2-4 levels of Paladin gets you Divine Grace for Cha focused people and Turn Undead to power Divine and Devotion feats, which are amazing. 1 level dip in Bear Warrior doubles most of your Barbarian abilities and opens up other strong dips like Warshaper which gives 100% fortification and +4 Str/Con in 2 levels.

Its like building your character out of legos. Sometimes you use red bricks, sometimes blue, and sometimes green. In the end, you use the same amount of bricks, and it looks like something you want to play with, but the amounts of different color bricks you use change the style and feel of it dynamically.

[Morph Bark]

I've redone this build a few times. Here's my latest version. It has 9th level divine spells, 7th level arcane spells, and caster levels that put the Word build to shame.

Spoiler

Show

Race: Male Half-Drow
Abilities:
str 8
dex 8
con 10
int 16
wis 16
cha 15
{table=head]Level|Class|Feats|Casting class increase
1st|Bard|Spell Focus(Conjuration)|Bard 1
2nd|Half Elf Paragon|Endurace|
3rd|Conjurer|Iron Will, Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots)|Wizard 1
4th|Spellthief||Spellthief 1
5th|Drow Paragon||Wizard 2
6th|Unseen Seer|Spell Focus(Evil)|Wizard 3
7th|Wildrunner||
8th|Master Specialist||Wizard 4
9th|Ruathar|Open Least Chakra(Feet)|Wizard 5
10th|Ur-Priest||UP 1
11th|Sublime Chord||SC 1
12th|Focluchan Lyrist|Master Spellthief|UP2 SC2
13|Mystic Theurge||UP3 SC3
14|Arcane Hierophant||UP4 SC4
15|Seeker of the Misty Isle|Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)|UP5
16|Fatespinner||UP6
17|Geomancer||UP7
18|Thaumaturgist|Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)|UP8
19|Wayfarer Guide||UP9
20|Mindbender||SC5
[/table]

Casting:
Add 1 orange ioun stone, it makes the math easier.
Wizard 5th level casting (Up to 3rd level spells), CL10 base, CL20 modified by sublime chord
Sublime Chord 5th level casting (Up to 7th level spells), CL20
-This sets the caster level of all arcane casting classes to 20
Bard 1st level casting, CL 20
Spellthief steal 0&1 level spells, CL20
-Master spellthief CL is added to all other arcane CLs, Making all arcane castin classes but spellthief CL40
Urpriest casting 9th level (9th level divine spells), CL 9+(140/2)+1=CL80

Don't you need an Animal Companion and/or 3rd-level Druid casting to enter Arcane Hierophant?

[Urpriest]

Don't you need an Animal Companion and/or 3rd-level Druid casting to enter Arcane Hierophant?

Nope, just trackless step and 2nd level divine and arcane spells. And Speak Language:Druidic, which is potentially a little hairier to get.