Possession (Or, why the Dread Necromancer Rocks)

[C.Penguin]

A short time ago I played a dread necromancer for my friend's faerun campaign and while I was browsing for feats in the BoVD I stumbled across the rules for possession. A DN has the option of gaining either an Imp or Quasit familiar at 8th level or whatever it is so I realized that I could use the fiendish familiar to possess my armor or what-have-you and give me free bonuses.

The possession rules in the BoVD state that any fiend with a charisma of 13 or more and at least 4 HD can possess an item, granting magical bonuses equal to 2,000x the fiend's HD. Since the familiar rules state that for the purposes of effects relating to HD, a familiar's HD equals it's masters, can the Imp familiar of my 10th level DN grant me 20k in magical enchantments?

Also have the possession rules been reprinted elsewhere?

[Morithias]

A short time ago I played a dread necromancer for my friend's faerun campaign and while I was browsing for feats in the BoVD I stumbled across the rules for possession. A DN has the option of gaining either an Imp or Quasit familiar at 8th level or whatever it is so I realized that I could use the fiendish familiar to possess my armor or what-have-you and give me free bonuses.

The possession rules in the BoVD state that any fiend with a charisma of 13 or more and at least 4 HD can possess an item, granting magical bonuses equal to 2,000x the fiend's HD. Since the familiar rules state that for the purposes of effects relating to HD, a familiar's HD equals it's masters, can the Imp familiar of my 10th level DN grant me 20k in magical enchantments?

Also have the possession rules been reprinted elsewhere?

It looks good until you realized that when you reach level 30, you're only allowed 60,000 in enchantments, and that enchantments from different sources don't stack. Overall I'd say you can, but it would be better in the long run just to actually enchant it.

[Alleine]

Fiendish Codex 1 has rules for possession on page 21. They look pretty much the same as the old rules too. Unfortunately, in order to possess anything a creature has to have the ability to become incorpreal. Neither Imps nor Quasits can do this on their own.

[Ranos]

It looks good until you realized that when you reach level 30, you're only allowed 60,000 in enchantments, and that enchantments from different sources don't stack. Overall I'd say you can, but it would be better in the long run just to actually enchant it.

It's not like the imp can't stop possessing the weapon/armor at any time. It's still pretty shaky though, both because the possession blurb is a variant rule subject to DM approval, and because it doesn't actually say "any" fiend, but "some" fiends with at least 4HD and 13 cha.

[C.Penguin]

Fiendish Codex 1 has rules for possession on page 21. They look pretty much the same as the old rules too. Unfortunately, in order to possess anything a creature has to have the ability to become incorpreal. Neither Imps nor Quasits can do this on their own.

Where does it say that they have to have the ability to become incorporeal because I am not seeing it. The exact quote is

"Sometimes a fiend with at least 4 hit dice and a charisma score of at least 13 has the supernatural ability to shuck it's physical form and take on an incorporeal one that enables it to possess other creatures -- or even objects."

Nowhere does it say that any given fiend has to have the power to turn incorporeal to possess things, just that the 4 HD and 13 cha grant the ability to do so.

[Urpriest]

Where does it say that they have to have the ability to become incorporeal because I am not seeing it. The exact quote is

"Sometimes a fiend with at least 4 hit dice and a charisma score of at least 13 has the supernatural ability to shuck it's physical form and take on an incorporeal one that enables it to possess other creatures -- or even objects."

Nowhere does it say that any given fiend has to have the power to turn incorporeal to possess things, just that the 4 HD and 13 cha grant the ability to do so.

[Guess] He may be confusing the ability with the entry requirements for Fiend of Possession [/Guess]

[Alleine]

"Sometimes a fiend with at least 4 hit dice and a charisma score of at least 13 has the supernatural ability to shuck it's physical form and take on an incorporeal one that enables it to possess other creatures -- or even objects."

I was gonna say here, but I just realized that it's wrong. I don't even know if there any monsters that can become incorporeal. Ethereal sure, but not incorporeal, and not in the same way possession talks about it. Looks like you're good to go.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as I can tell the HD part works out just fine. Possession is an effect influenced by HD so the familiar's HD should count the same as their master's.

[Boren]

Nice thought and I like your creativity with this BUT read a little more and...

A fiend with this ability has a CR 2 higher than standard fiends of its kind

FC I page 22
Now if your DM says go then more power to you...literally this is a nasty little trick you've thought up and if I was your DM I might let you try it just form a creativity standpoint however I would probably rule it as a no from the second player on.

[C.Penguin]

Nice thought and I like your creativity with this BUT read a little more and...
FC I page 22
Now if your DM says go then more power to you...literally this is a nasty little trick you've thought up and if I was your DM I might let you try it just form a creativity standpoint however I would probably rule it as a no from the second player on.

Ah yes I was figuring this would be a part of this ability, I see. Yeah I thought it was a nice little trick bypassing the whole "selling your soul for power" thing but my DM liked it enough that he went for it, I was just curious if there was anything, as there obviously is, that said i couldn't do it. I had no clue if this was legal because I have never seen anything anywhere that even mentions the whole possession thing. Thanks for this.

[Boren]

Just had a thought!
After reading the dread necro entry seeing as you more or less automatically get the improved familiar feat if you actually took the feat on top of this I would say you can have an imp (or whatever) that is capable of possessing your equipment.
I think that's a fair trade off don't you?

[C.Penguin]

Just had a thought!
After reading the dread necro entry seeing as you more or less automatically get the improved familiar feat if you actually took the feat on top of this I would say you can have an imp (or whatever) that is capable of possessing your equipment.
I think that's a fair trade off don't you?

Ah that is an interesting idea, I'll have to ask my DM if he likes that idea if I try this again, thought I think he'd probably just give it to me as is, he is pretty lenient.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Less powerful, potentially(I think) than if you just gave it magic items and used it as an artillery platform...

[The Glyphstone]

I don't know, I can see it being handy sometimes - it depends on how frequently they can possess/unpossess, and if they can change the enhancements they supply when doing so. If it counts as a new enhancement when they possess it, you could get some significant cheese out of the 1/day weapon and armor abilities.

[C.Penguin]

If it counts as a new enhancement when they possess it, you could get some significant cheese out of the 1/day weapon and armor abilities.

Can you give me some examples of this?

[Milskidasith]

Can you give me some examples of this?

Many of the armor crystals and such; "Get a +5 bonus against X. One/day, reroll against X" (could be arrows, death attacks, etc.)

I would assume possession is a standard action to start and stop, since that's what the default of everything is, and armor crystals are pretty cheap and are explicitly allowed to be swapped out, so... your guy is a battery of free armor or weapon crystals that can be recharged. That's actually pretty good, since you don't even have to forgo actually decent armor.

[C.Penguin]

Many of the armor crystals and such; "Get a +5 bonus against X. One/day, reroll against X" (could be arrows, death attacks, etc.)

I would assume possession is a standard action to start and stop, since that's what the default of everything is, and armor crystals are pretty cheap and are explicitly allowed to be swapped out, so... your guy is a battery of free armor or weapon crystals that can be recharged. That's actually pretty good, since you don't even have to forgo actually decent armor.

Ah I do not believe this would not work as the abilities presented must be part of an enchantment bonus (+1 or flaming or what-have-you). I don't think you can use it on whatever you want. If your idea would work though, it would be a very cool trick.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, for the 20K limit, there's:
Blurstrike Weapon: +2 bonus, opponents flat-footed versus melee attacks 10 rounds/day.
Death Ward Armor: +1 bonus, ignore a death/negative energy effect 1/day.
Blinding Shield: +1 bonus, deliver a flash of blinding light 2/day to enemies.

There's a lot fewer of the effects than I thought, though.

[Malbordeus]

why bother with weapons? your a dn...

on the flip side of posession however, you can always Magic-Jar your familiar and go for a few hours of mayhem when you get bored!

[fryplink]

Or, you could create batman items? Have an empty rod on hand and then whenever you need "x" rod, have the imp posses it for whatever effect is needed, the same with wands, (not scrolls, don't want to spend you familiar), even pearls of power, then when their usefulness goes away, have him become a different item.

[C.Penguin]

Or, you could create batman items? Have an empty rod on hand and then whenever you need "x" rod, have the imp posses it for whatever effect is needed, the same with wands, (not scrolls, don't want to spend you familiar), even pearls of power, then when their usefulness goes away, have him become a different item.

Again, I don't think this would work since I don't think rods operate under the same system as enchantment bonuses. We're bothering with weapons as a DN because that's all we have available. Or am I way off and rods work just like enchanting weapons and armor?

[fryplink]

Again, I don't think this would work since I don't think rods operate under the same system as enchantment bonuses. We're bothering with weapons as a DN because that's all we have available. Or am I way off and rods work just like enchanting weapons and armor?

Maybe rods were a bad example, but other items? since items have their cost listed, along with production costs and similar things. I'm really just taking a stab at options

[Boren]

Well, for the 20K limit, there's:
Blurstrike Weapon: +2 bonus, opponents flat-footed versus melee attacks 10 rounds/day.
Death Ward Armor: +1 bonus, ignore a death/negative energy effect 1/day.
Blinding Shield: +1 bonus, deliver a flash of blinding light 2/day to enemies.

There's a lot fewer of the effects than I thought, though.

Ok while I can see doing a say 1/day swap out on the abilities to the tune of 'ok we're going to assault the red dragon tomorrow "Hmmm...I think I might want some fire resistance and possibly a little evasion if we can fit it in"' but swapping out 'per day' charge abilities would probably overtax your familiar after all its his own magical essence your using. It may be fine RAW however if you did that too much I would say something along the lines of
You: ok I tell my familiar to un-possess my armor.
DM: you get no response
You: Umm...I look around for him
DM: You spot him passed out on the floor you think he might wake up in a few days.