3.5 Best way to optimize Bluff and Diplomacy?

[PrismaticPIA]

In a 5-level build?

[Thurbane]

2 off the top of my head:

Binder 1: Bind Naberious (take 10 on social skill checks).

1/2 Elf feat: allows re-roll of social skill checks.

[Glimbur]

A level of warlock is sweet for the invocation that helps here: Beguiling Influence for a +6.

A level of bard for the half-elf substitution stuff is nice.

A level of marshal for motivate Cha to double your Cha bonus is good.

The other two levels I"m not sure of.

[PId6]

Venerable Half-Elf Cloistered Cleric 1/Marshal 1/Warlock 1/Binder 1/Incarnate 1

Ability: 18 Cha + 3 Age + 1 Level + 2 Enhancement = 24 Cha
Flaws: Noncombatant, Murky-Eyed
Traits: Illiterate (Bluff), Polite
Skills: Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (Royalty) 5, Sense Motive 5, 2 ranks in Literacy, rest in every Speak Language ever
Feats: Sacred Vow [BoED], Nymph's Kiss [BoED], Complementary Insight [RoD], Skill Focus (Diplomacy) [Bonus], Skill Focus (Bluff)
Stuff: Community Domain [SpC], Trickery Domain, Knowledge Domain, Motivate Charisma aura [MH], Beguiling Influence invocation [CA], Silvertongue Mask soulmeld [MoI], Naberius vestige [ToM]
Items: Circlet of Persuasion [4,500 gp], Cloak of Charisma +2 [4,000], Masterwork Tools of Bluff [50 gp], Masterwork Tools of Diplomacy [50 gp]

Bluff:
8 ranks
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+4 insight Silvertongue Mask
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+3 Skill Focus
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Illiterate
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 (Naberius)
= 53

Diplomacy:
8 ranks
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+9 synergy (Complementary Insight)
+4 insight (Silvertongue Mask)
+2 racial
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Community Domain
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Polite
+2 perfection Sacred Vow
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 and use as standard action without penalty (Naberius)
= 68

[gbprime]

Yeah, I was gonna add something to the thread, but it looks well covered.

[PrismaticPIA]

That's disgusting, I approve ^.^

Additional restrictions: No ToM, no flaws, starting gold is 7K, and it would be handy if the build could be "somewhat" useful in combat.

How on earth did you get that many feats?

[PId6]

How on earth did you get that many feats?

Two from flaws, two normally, and one bonus feat from Marshal 1.

Additional restrictions: No ToM, no flaws, starting gold is 7K, and it would be handy if the build could be "somewhat" useful in combat.

That's a bit annoying. Binder's abilities are kinda irreplaceable here (take 10 on Bluff/Diplomacy, standard action Diplomacize), though Half-Elf bard may work as sorta a replacement. Changeling rogue 1 covers the taking 10, though you'll still take penalty for rushed Diplomacies (and the bonus gets a bit lower).

"Somewhat" useful in combat is the hardest part. Let's see...

Middle-Aged Changeling Rogue 3 (with RoE sub level)/Warlock 1/Marshal 1

Ability: Con >= 13, 18 Cha + 1 Age + 1 Level = 20 Cha
Traits: Illiterate (Bluff), Polite
Skills: Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (Royalty) 5, Sense Motive 5, 2 ranks in Literacy, rest in whatever
Feats: Nymph's Kiss [BoED], Shape Soulmeld (Silvertongue Mask) [MoI], Skill Focus (Diplomacy) [Bonus]
Stuff: Eldritch Blast 1d6, Sneak Attack 2d6, Death's Ruin [CC Rogue 3 ACF], Motivate Charisma aura [MH], Beguiling Influence invocation [CA], Silvertongue Mask soulmeld [MoI]
Items: Circlet of Persuasion [4,500 gp], Masterwork Tools of Bluff [50 gp], Masterwork Tools of Diplomacy [50 gp], 2,400 gp remaining

Bluff:
8 ranks
+5 Charisma
+5 Motivate Charisma
+2 insight Silvertongue Mask
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+2 racial
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Illiterate
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 (Changeling Rogue 1)
= 46

Diplomacy:
8 ranks
+5 Charisma
+5 Motivate Charisma
+6 synergy
+2 insight (Silvertongue Mask)
+3 Skill Focus
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Polite
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 (Changeling Rogue 1)
= 53

Combat:

Blast people with your Eldritch Blast along with 2d6 Sneak Attack. Your base attack bonus sucks (without fractional BAB), but it's a touch attack, so it shouldn't be too bad. Your UMD should be pretty good too, so you can always rely on that.

[PrismaticPIA]

Venerable Half-Elf Cloistered Cleric 1/Marshal 1/Warlock 1/Binder 1/Incarnate 1

Ability: 18 Cha + 3 Age + 1 Level + 2 Enhancement = 24 Cha
Flaws: Noncombatant, Murky-Eyed
Traits: Illiterate (Bluff), Polite
Skills: Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (Royalty) 5, Sense Motive 5, 2 ranks in Literacy, rest in every Speak Language ever
Feats: Sacred Vow [BoED], Nymph's Kiss [BoED], Complementary Insight [RoD], Skill Focus (Diplomacy) [Bonus], Skill Focus (Bluff)
Stuff: Community Domain [SpC], Trickery Domain, Knowledge Domain, Motivate Charisma aura [MH], Beguiling Influence invocation [CA], Silvertongue Mask soulmeld [MoI], Naberius vestige [ToM]
Items: Circlet of Persuasion [4,500 gp], Cloak of Charisma +2 [4,000], Masterwork Tools of Bluff [50 gp], Masterwork Tools of Diplomacy [50 gp]

Bluff:
8 ranks
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+4 insight Silvertongue Mask
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+3 Skill Focus
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Illiterate
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 (Naberius)
= 53

Diplomacy:
8 ranks
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+9 synergy (Complementary Insight)
+4 insight (Silvertongue Mask)
+2 racial
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Community Domain
+2 circumstance Nymph's Kiss
+6 Beguiling Influence
+1 Polite
+2 perfection Sacred Vow
+3 competence Circlet of Persuasion
+2 circumstance Masterwork Tools
Able to take 10 and use as standard action without penalty (Naberius)
= 68

Out of curiosity, what would a twenty-level layout look like for this guy? Assuming no restrictions?

[PId6]

Out of curiosity, what would a twenty-level layout look like for this guy? Assuming no restrictions?

Diplomancy really gets pointless past maybe level 8-ish, since by that point your Diplomacy score is just High Enough. I'd probably dip more classes for skill boosts (Totemist for Lamia's Belt and more essentia, Bard for the half-elf substitution levels, Exemplar for the competence boost, and similar until eventually just take things for the 1 rank per level). Feats would just be things that give +3 or +2, such as Vow of Nonviolence -> Vow of Peace, Persuasive, Negotiator, and probably others if you take the time to dig them out. Past a certain point, it no longer matters what you take.