Creating NPC's

[Paganboy28]

Just out of curiosity, when creating NPCs do you follow the strict rules as for creating PC's or do you go more free-form and just select what you think makes them more interesting?

[Shademan]

Hah! more often than not, I don't even have stats for them!
but don't tell my players!

[BobVosh]

Hah! more often than not, I don't even have stats for them!
but don't tell my players!

This. Only if I expect my PCs to fight them will I stat them. Even then sometimes I just cheat and use another NPC I have made.

[Aroka]

Just out of curiosity, when creating NPCs do you follow the strict rules as for creating PC's or do you go more free-form and just select what you think makes them more interesting?

Question is unclear. What game? What do you mean?

I don't go through the PC creation process - if I'm creating a Twilight 2013 NPC, I just give them stats and skill levels (not points), rather than go through a lifepath. Although if I'm creating an important Artesia: AKW NPC, I may very well run through the whole Lifepath process, because it's so damned fun (and I am always tempted to repeat the Lifepath for any family and friends rolled up).

I don't break the rules, though. I don't give a 2nd-level D&D 3.5 NPC seventeen feats, or give an 8th-level fighter 10th-level wizard casting. Why would I?

[FelixG]

Hah! more often than not, I don't even have stats for them!
but don't tell my players!

This

Or i use existing stats from other creatures/characters and refluff them.

Once ran a serenity game using 3 NPCs just constantly refluffed, the game lasted around 5 months

[Malificus]

I have 33 (and counting) Generic NPC characters that are built the same way I'd make a PC for the campaign. They have stats for different weapon selection, or slight build changes.

I make a bunch of generic NPC character sheets for when I need to pull one out randomly, and make custom sheets for special characters.

Partially this is so I'll be comfortable enough with the system so that when I need to do something different, or make something up, I'll be better at improvising.

[Aroka]

I have 33 (and counting) Generic NPC characters that are built the same way I'd make a PC for the campaign. They have stats for different weapon selection, or slight build changes.

I make a bunch of generic NPC character sheets for when I need to pull one out randomly, and make custom sheets for special characters.

I do the same thing for most games. I've just got a pile of characters like "Squire", "Knight", "Police Officer", "SWAT Officer", "Bandit", "Bandit Leader" ready to use. It works best in games that aren't D&D, though, since I don't have to worry about level-appropriate challenges.

[DanReiv]

If I'm 100% sure my players gonna fight it (for example, BBEG minion): fully done, like PC, except I don't roll their stats.

If there's a chance my players gonna fight it (town guard): just the basic idea (the build in one line), or NPC templates.

If not (the guy who sells leathercraft at the local market): not stat, no sheet, no nothing, they're what I describe

[Shademan]

you know what would be awesome? THE BOOK OF 101 NPC'S!
with everything from farmers and blacksmith to small town sorcerers and kings

[Malificus]

you know what would be awesome? THE BOOK OF 101 NPC'S!
with everything from farmers and blacksmith to small town sorcerers and kings

I'm effectively making an E6 version of this. |:

[Aroka]

you know what would be awesome? THE BOOK OF 101 NPC'S!
with everything from farmers and blacksmith to small town sorcerers and kings

I have write-ups for generic NPCs of literally all professions of all five standard cultures in Artesia: AKW. That's probably something like 200+ different NPCs (I just did a quick count of one culture's, and it's 40+ entries). I started with the generic Danian NPCs in the book, and altered those - mostly by switching out the lineages and making adjustments to some skills, spells, and equipment. Customising further is easy by adding a lineage or birth omens or just ad-hoc raising abilities and skills. Much easier than in a level-based game, too.

Probably took me one afternoon and evening.

[Vantharion]

This is actually one of the FEW reasons DMG2 can be good. It has a few generic and easily refluffable premade characters..... and then a ton of ways to generic mainstream build characters.
I jot out a quick 'template' for stats.... like 'High Str, Low Wis, Good Reflex'
Usually the things that will come into play first are what I care about
I have only ever decided THREE NPC's Use Rope skill.

[WinWin]

As above, most games comes with a few generic characters in a rulebook somewhere. I do not bother statting out NPC's, but if I have to run a combat, I can use those stats with only a few minutes of tinkering.

For more important characters I may put some more work in. I try and recycle stuff whenever possible, so the stats for the Mercenary Wizard I used a few weeks ago might be very similar to the notes I have for the Village Elder in next weeks game, for example.

[Zaydos]

I'll sketch out NPC enemies. Depending upon the situation they'll be used in I don't bother to figure out their skill points.

For NPCs that they aren't meant to fight? I don't bother. I might make notes such as 15th level wizard, has staff of disintegrate, or the king is a Lv 20 barbarian, his brother is a level 20 monk.

Some NPCs I do bend the rules on. The kobold master artificer? He has 4 HD, and a +2 BAB, but he has the full item crafting abilities of a 20th level artificer (but no infusions). Or the goblin that sells dragon eggs? Never sure if he's a Lv 13+ artificer or someone with less abilities (the latter makes his hiring people to do his dirty work make more sense).

Even for BBEG's I have been known to give them abilities not in any book if it makes an interesting encounter; especially when I'm DMing with the seat of my pants (such as when I have 5 minutes warning before running a one-shot) and don't have time to craft a BBEG.

I'm slowly learning that the NPCs and PCs are the same rule isn't always the best; my IRL players have enjoyed it more when the villain was out-there and not something that could be made by the books.

[Aroka]

So what do y'all do when the PCs start a fight with someone you didn't expect them to? Grind into a halt or wing it completely? The latter seems pretty hard in a game with as strict mechanics and as many rigid options as D&D.

[Shademan]

I'm effectively making an E6 version of this. |:

GIVE IT TO ME!
PLEASE!

[Tyndmyr]

you know what would be awesome? THE BOOK OF 101 NPC'S!
with everything from farmers and blacksmith to small town sorcerers and kings

Hell, I'll write one. I have enough characters statted up already, some in PC levels of detail. Good builds too, not crappy WoTC ones, where characters apparently carry around expensive gear they can't use, or break rules of character creation.

In practice, I stat a lot of stuff up. It's strictly legal, but yeah, I don't always put in the same level of detail that a PC would get. That takes a lot of time, and is reserved for only the most important of NPCs. It's not just for people the PCs are expected to fight though...there's no guarantee that plan will work out. However, I do make substantial reuse of stat sheets as appropriate. For instance, most town guards in a given area will be more or less the same. You might have a special leader, and one or two characters that are unique, but most of them simply aren't important enough to be completely customized. Too much work.

Good reuse of material is huge for avoiding rework, and yet still having realistic characters.

[Shademan]

great! you two write it and give it to me 8D

[Paladineyddi]

Hah! more often than not, I don't even have stats for them!
but don't tell my players!

SHUSH they cant even suspect such a thing exists

[Vantharion]

Whenever something is important, a turning point. I will create out the involved NPCs. I'm talking like 'Two warring nations negotiations and players are present'
In those situations... ANYTHING can happen. I love it when my campaign gets turned on its axis sometimes... Like when my players BLATANTLY overlooked 3-8 clues of a plot going on and only got involved at the last minute. Those situations I love leaving up to the dice.

[Vantharion]

My players did have a fit when the assassin with Far Shot and a heavy crossbow of distance started picking them off their wyverns with True Strike and poisoned bolts at a range of 3,000 feet. But he was special.

I love doing that to players. I have a cleric/rogue with warlock like invocations of a dark demigod. Shatter vs cleric's holy symbol.

Party level: 3... maybe 3.5
They fought a fighter and a monk.
The fighter would get two attacks against two players. If one hit it did 1d6+1d8.
The monk would attack with four attacks each hitting for about 1d6+2. (Flurry-ish)
The fighter and the monk had pretty good accuracy and VERY high hp for the level.
AND the players were trying to take each of the ECL 6-8 fighter/monk alive.
Players managed to win... They killed the fighter and the monk both...
Two barbarians, paladin of freedom, a death&chaos cleric, a sorcerer and a rogue/wizard hybrid...
I just quick crafted those NPCs to challenge the players. The players were challenged for 4 rounds tops.
Sigh...

[Greenish]

So what do y'all do when the PCs start a fight with someone you didn't expect them to? Grind into a halt or wing it completely? The latter seems pretty hard in a game with as strict mechanics and as many rigid options as D&D.

Well, dirty farmers, ancient librarians, the guy who sells fish of questionable freshness and so forth are easy. If a PC with some levels under it's belt attacks them, they die.

If they suddenly decide to take on King's court head-on (and you haven't statted the King and some generic guards), it's reasonable to declare a break so you can whip something up.

[GameSpawn]

So what do y'all do when the PCs start a fight with someone you didn't expect them to? Grind into a halt or wing it completely? The latter seems pretty hard in a game with as strict mechanics and as many rigid options as D&D.

I usually wing it (although there's nothing wrong with calling a quick break, I don't like stopping the action). I assume the npcs don't have too many weird abilities, and when they do something I pick a modifier, and stick to it. I have the casters drop spells that are straightforward, and have the combat types have a few reasonable feats (or a lot if they're high level). I've never had it work out too badly.

EDIT: I do this in 3.5

[valadil]

If I stat them at all they'll go by the book. Not all NPCs need to be statted.

I do make things up occasionally though and that often involves inventing rules. To conclude the my PCs' misadventures in the Underdark I'm thinking about how to do a Drider with multiple Drow bodies instead of just one. I could just call it a solo with lots of out of turn or minor attacks, or I could make 2-3 enemies with a shared pool of HP. Or maybe part of it is the mount and the rest is the rider.

[Ormur]

Hell, I'll write one. I have enough characters statted up already, some in PC levels of detail. Good builds too, not crappy WoTC ones, where characters apparently carry around expensive gear they can't use, or break rules of character creation.

In practice, I stat a lot of stuff up. It's strictly legal, but yeah, I don't always put in the same level of detail that a PC would get. That takes a lot of time, and is reserved for only the most important of NPCs. It's not just for people the PCs are expected to fight though...there's no guarantee that plan will work out. However, I do make substantial reuse of stat sheets as appropriate. For instance, most town guards in a given area will be more or less the same. You might have a special leader, and one or two characters that are unique, but most of them simply aren't important enough to be completely customized. Too much work.

Good reuse of material is huge for avoiding rework, and yet still having realistic characters.

I've been wondering if there shouldn't be a thread here with stock NPC people could contribute to and borrow from.

A broad selection of different roles, challenge ratings and optimization levels.

I'd love to see stats for a generic level 10 wizard, abilities, spells selected, buffs active, items, etc.

[jiriku]

If I stat up an NPC at all (and like most here, I only do so if I expect to need the stats), it's Always By The Book. Some people find that limiting. I enjoy the challenge to my design skills. I also like to encourage them to leverage their understanding of the system in planning how to defeat or circumvent their opponents.

If I do invent a custom ability, I'll make it as a feat or alternate class feature, write it into my campaign sourcebook, and make it available as a build option to players (although it may have prerequisites they'll have difficulty meeting, such as a larger size category, nonhuman race or very high caster level or attack bonus).

[Tyndmyr]

If I stat up an NPC at all (and like most here, I only do so if I expect to need the stats), it's Always By The Book. Some people find that limiting. I enjoy the challenge to my design skills. I also like to encourage them to leverage their understanding of the system in planning how to defeat or circumvent their opponents.

If I do invent a custom ability, I'll make it as a feat or alternate class feature, write it into my campaign sourcebook, and make it available as a build option to players (although it may have prerequisites they'll have difficulty meeting, such as a larger size category, nonhuman race or very high caster level or attack bonus).

This is how I do it too...and I do make a pretty good effort to find something first. There usually is something workable that's close enough, as 3.5 really does have a lot of material.

It's a blast, and even the wierd things come up...languages, for example. Many games skip over languages, and many optimizers treat them as something to mostly ignore, but having to put at least a tiny bit of effort to communicate with things is definitely of value.

[TheBlackShadow]

See first panel --> http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0272.html

[Vantharion]

If I stat up an NPC at all (and like most here, I only do so if I expect to need the stats), it's Always By The Book. Some people find that limiting. I enjoy the challenge to my design skills. I also like to encourage them to leverage their understanding of the system in planning how to defeat or circumvent their opponents.

If I do invent a custom ability, I'll make it as a feat or alternate class feature, write it into my campaign sourcebook, and make it available as a build option to players (although it may have prerequisites they'll have difficulty meeting, such as a larger size category, nonhuman race or very high caster level or attack bonus).

I would love to be able to do this.
The problem is, I have 5-7 players on average, I don't have the ability to make feats and alternate class features for NPCs that players could take.
I'm avoiding making anything players could gain that I've given to an NPC to make them more challenging and a threat.
If a player expresses interest in something they find in the world, I will develop a form for them to use however.

Do you have any particular method for making your campaign sourcebook?

[WinWin]

So what do y'all do when the PCs start a fight with someone you didn't expect them to? Grind into a halt or wing it completely? The latter seems pretty hard in a game with as strict mechanics and as many rigid options as D&D.

Winging it is fairly easy for most NPC's. It becomes a little more difficult at higher level. As stated above, a commoner or warrior is not going to put up a fight. A powerful or influential NPC might demand a game recess though, just to figure out a decent challenge and response.