A player's revenge

[The Mentalist]

My DM recently gave some enemies gunpowder and when my character got a hold of it we very suddenly came up against a lot of fire using enemies and I had to make an additional reflex save every time I was hit. I fail these saves about two sessions in and it's an instant kill because "1kg of gunpowder in your backpack will kill you. Physics still works"

So I roll up a Wizard.

At this point half the party (who has played with me before) starts laughing a little and waiting for what I have planned (They don't know what exactly is happening)

I start acquiring anything I can that's "Indestructible" (DM's fond of them, rings, toys, some food, just general rubbish) and start an infinite acceleration system with them (Keeping it in a bag of holding). DM finally shows us the BBEG (The first dragon RAWR!) and it goes through it's monologue.

DM: "Blah blah blah."

Me: "I cast Greater Celerity."

Everyone at table: "What?"

Me: "I open the bag of holding and teleport the top teleporter on top of the dragon."

DM: "So?"

Me, passing him the calculations: "Two dozen indestructible objects at the nearly the speed of light entering a high friction environment and hitting the dragon. Physics still works"

A bit extreme maybe but he killed my rogue, in the middle of a Kobold dungeon full of traps, because he couldn't cope with his own toys.

[Drakevarg]

Wouldn't the resulting impact kinda... obliterate everything in the immediate area?

[The Mentalist]

It did. The party was saved by contingent teleports. Even if they had died I think they would have approved though. They hated the rest of that dungeon without a trap springer.

[Drakevarg]

Ah, good show, then.

Chunky Salsa Rule is fun.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Chunky Dragon Salsa Rule FTW

[Project_Mayhem]

Normally I'd frown at player white-whale-ery, but this seems both funny and fitting

[_Zoot_]

Ouch, good thing you could teleport, there would not have been much left after that kind of impact

[FelixG]

How did the GM react? :D

[The Pressman]

How did the GM react? :D

That's what I was wondering, although I can already almost picture it...

[stenver]

can anyone give me drawing or explain really good what just happened? Im not that good in physics and how did that explosion happen, exactly?

Teleport isnt faster then speed of light, it is jumping from one place to another.

[Amoren]

...Screw teleport, I think you're going to need a plane shift spell to get out of that one! The potential damage on a PLANET with sufficient indestructible relativistic kill vehicles traveling at the speed of light might cause an extinction level event.

Of course, if I was the DM, I would have argued that the indestructible objects were not, in fact, traveling at anywhere near the speed of light. Due to A) potential friction in the teleporter set up, or B) the speed of light is really, really, really big and any perpetual teleportation acceleration set up would take years, perhaps centuries to get that fast.

[jpreem]

to stenver

Maybe he used some exit portal over the entrance portal type of thing ( with ring gates or what not) stuff falls from the exit portal into the entrance portal, pops out of the exit again. And keeps on falling and falling steadily gaining the speed. When theres somekinda of a gravitational force and no air in a portable hole then the stufff just keeps gaining speed.

[Stompy]

[...] and start an infinite acceleration system with them (Keeping it in a bag of holding).

I have no clue how you can manage this with one bag of holding. (two linked portals, sure...) Someone enlighten me.

[Amoren]

can anyone give me drawing or explain really good what just happened? Im not that good in physics and how did that explosion happen, exactly?

Teleport isnt faster then speed of light, it is jumping from one place to another.

It helps if you've played Portal, as the demonstration of the gameplay really hits the underlying rule of this home. Basically, you assume that the momentum of an object being teleported is conserved (or in layman's term "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"). So, say you have a (frictionless) environment with gravity, and a teleporter entrance and exit ten meters apart vertically (they're on top of each other).

You drop an item in at the top of the system, and it falls for one second acquiring a velocity of 9.8m/s (assuming Earth gravity) then travels into the teleporter entrance. It then teleports to the exit, which is on top of it, and acquires another 9.8m/s of speed every second of this, forever. Since there is no friction, aka air, to slow the object down, there is no terminal velocity, and thus no limit to how fast an object could become from doing this. Hell, you don't even need indestructible items to pull this off, the indestructible RKV's just make it all the more 'oh god we're dead' thing.

This is assuming he's used a similar system though.

Edit: You could, potentially, do this with a bag of holding if you assume whatever sub pocket dimension/whatever that the items you place in it are junted to still possess gravity. Then you would only need to somehow get it to hold two portals and set the items in motion. Then you would only need to change the exit portal to your intended target, and then make peace with your gods because anything you use that on within sight is still going to turn you into submolecular ash.

[Tyndmyr]

Ring gates work particularly well for these(and other) shenanigans.

I must say, I approve. It's a particularly appropriate vengeance, and that makes it clever and satisfying.

[GM.Casper]

Yeah, but then you are getting free energy. Laws of physics forbid that.

[jmbrown]

It helps if you've played Portal, as the demonstration of the gameplay really hits the underlying rule of this home. Basically, you assume that the momentum of an object being teleported is conserved (or in layman's term "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"). So, say you have a (frictionless) environment with gravity, and a teleporter entrance and exit ten meters apart vertically (they're on top of each other).

You drop an item in at the top of the system, and it falls for one second acquiring a velocity of 9.8m/s (assuming Earth gravity) then travels into the teleporter entrance. It then teleports to the exit, which is on top of it, and acquires another 9.8m/s of speed every second of this, forever. Since there is no friction, aka air, to slow the object down, there is no terminal velocity, and thus no limit to how fast an object could become from doing this. Hell, you don't even need indestructible items to pull this off, the indestructible RKV's just make it all the more 'oh god we're dead' thing.

This is assuming he's used a similar system though.

Edit: You could, potentially, do this with a bag of holding if you assume whatever sub pocket dimension/whatever that the items you place in it are junted to still possess gravity. Then you would only need to somehow get it to hold two portals and set the items in motion. Then you would only need to change the exit portal to your intended target, and then make peace with your gods because anything you use that on within sight is still going to turn you into submolecular ash.

Teleportation is instantaneous movement from point A to point B. There's no buildup of momentum or velocity, you instantly travel through the Astral plane and immediately begin existing at the point specified.

[Force]

Yeah, but then you are getting free energy. Laws of physics forbid that.

Wizard's existence = laws of physics commit suicide. 'nuff said.

[hotel_papa]

Teleportation is instantaneous movement from point A to point B. There's no buildup of momentum or velocity, you instantly travel through the Astral plane and immediately begin existing at the point specified.

If I'm reading correctly, that's not the point. The buildup of momentum and velocity occurs when the object is in free fall between the two teleporters in a frictionless environment. The teleportation simply allows it to be perpetual. While there is no buildup during your instant jaunt in the Astral plane, there is also no degradation.

Also, the energy is not free at all. Once an object is in perpetual free fall in a frictionless environment, the force of gravity on it renders an amount of potential energy approaching the speed of light. The only limitation is the object's mass and the acceleration of gravity. But, what was said earlier was true. In my opinion, this would take longer than a Draconic monologue.

That aside, wouldn't allow it in my campaign. There's nothing that says the inside of an extradimensional space is frictionless, especially since it contains 10 minutes of air, or that gravity continues to work consistently in one direction. Maybe a portable hole, but not a bag of holding. But then, I also wouldn't have made you roll another save for the backpack full of explosives unless you rolled a one on a fire area effect. Like dem rules sayz.

That being said, he was punishing you for taking advantage of something he put into a campaign. Screw the dragon.

[MightyTim]

The formula for relativistic acceleration isn't terribly complicated in and of itself.

V(t)=g*t/sqrt(1+(g*t/c)^2)

Where V(t) is the velocity at any point in time, g is the accleration due to gravity, c is the speed of light, and t is the time (this assumes the object starts at rest at t=0). If we assume that D&D has the same 9.8 m/s^2 acceleration due to gravity as well as the same speed of light (about 300,000,000 m/s). I ran some quick calculations and found that you can get to about 2/3 the speed of light after 30,000,000 seconds, which translates to 8,333 ish hours. I doubt the adventuring party is going to stay in a dungeon that long, so you're not going to be anywhere near the speed of light by the time you reach the BBEG.

However, that's not the only thing we've got to take into account here. Using the same equation for the sake of rigorousness, if you assume the adventurers are in there for about an hour (3600 seconds), the objects falling can reach a speed of 35,280 m/s during that time, which is still absurdly fast. For comparison, the speed of a bullet only ever goes up to about 1500 m/s.

So while you wouldn't have something approaching the seed of light on the timeframe we're talking about, you still effectively have a railgun.

The problems with the scenario lie in what hotel_papa touched on. The pocket dimension of the bag of holding needs to have a linear directional acceleration due to gravity and be a frictionless environment. The 10 minutes of air they include seem to contradict that. Finding terminal velocity is a lot more tedious of a task, since it's determined by the physical characteristics of the object in question (and it seems like there's more than one), so there's no way to really conclusively tell how fast it'd really be going once it comes out.

tl;dr

Neat idea, probably wouldn't actually work. DM had it coming anyway :P

[The Mentalist]

To the people mentioning the speed: Yes the environment was frictionless (A spell from a 3rd party book I can't recall) and I had a permanent Gust of Wind on all the items to increase the acceleration.

GM's reaction. "What? You're telling me... you killed the dragon? Before the end of the speech? F**K YOU MAN! Wrap game. I need time to fix this.

[AtopTheMountain]

To the people mentioning the speed: Yes the environment was frictionless (A spell from a 3rd party book I can't recall) and I had a permanent Gust of Wind on all the items to increase the acceleration.

GM's reaction. "What? You're telling me... you killed the dragon? Before the end of the speech? F**K YOU MAN! Wrap game. I need time to fix this.

Wait... if it had no air, how does Gust of Wind work?

[Aroka]

I fail these saves about two sessions in and it's an instant kill because "1kg of gunpowder in your backpack will kill you. Physics still works"

Why? It's not going to be terribly pressurized - wouldn't it just burn up very quickly? A great flash of fire in your backpack, it might catch on fire, but you'd probably be able to discard it...

I'd argue your DM's physics wasn't that strong.

And yes, your come-back was actually appropriate. Using bad physics against a DM who used bad physics against you is definitely poetic justice.

[Urpriest]

Many catgirls died to bring us this information.

[The Mentalist]

Wait... if it had no air, how does Gust of Wind work?

There is a small bit of air in a Bag of Holding, the other spell just made it so that there was no friction to it. Sick and defies the laws of psychics but it was worth it.

[Naia]

Well played! *salutes*

[The Glyphstone]

To the people mentioning the speed: Yes the environment was frictionless (A spell from a 3rd party book I can't recall) and I had a permanent Gust of Wind on all the items to increase the acceleration.

GM's reaction. "What? You're telling me... you killed the dragon? Before the end of the speech? F**K YOU MAN! Wrap game. I need time to fix this.

Marginally better than fiating it on the spot for you to fail.

Was this recent, or is there more aftermath to describe?

[The Mentalist]

He's currently asking the party if we want to start a new game or try and continue with this one. He has definitely taken a dim view of Wizards at the moment and has asked me to play another class saying "I'm not going to play with you're going to destroy my campaigns." I want to reply "And I don't want my characters gimped or destroyed because you don't like them."

[Gan The Grey]

He's currently asking the party if we want to start a new game or try and continue with this one. He has definitely taken a dim view of Wizards at the moment and has asked me to play another class saying "I'm not going to play with you're going to destroy my campaigns." I want to reply "And I don't want my characters gimped or destroyed because you don't like them."

Then I suggest you reply with that exactly. This whole situation could have been prevented in the beginning with so decent communication. Now he has a problem with wizards because of one situation. If you guys talk it out, you might solve alot of future problems long before they arise.

[Lord_Gareth]

You could always, y'know, find a new GM. This guy sounds like a meanyface >.>