Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Okay so I'm working on an incarnum infused world (okay 5 interconnected prime material planes; 4 of which are aligned) and wanted to make elves, and goblinoids more friendly towards incarnum (okay goblins are just weak and I wanted to up their power a bit, and elves the above) so how do these look:

    Goblins:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Nexan (unaligned world):
    — –2 Strength, +2 Dexterity.
    —Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
    —A goblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +2 racial bonus on Move Silently and Ride checks.
    — +2 racial bonus on saving throws versus Poison and Disease
    — 1 point of bonus essentia.
    — Midnight’s Cloak: May invest essentia in this ability to gain a bonus to one of Move Silently, Hide, or Sleight of Hands for a +2 to skill checks per point of essentia invested. Essentia may be moved into and out of this ability as normal, but which skill it applies to on a given day must be decided only 1/day.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Ninja (not actually used).

    Baelian (Evil world; tend towards assassins):
    — +2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma.
    —Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
    —A goblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +4 racial bonus on Move Silently and Ride checks.
    — +2 racial bonus on saving throws versus Poison and Disease
    — Poison Use as a racial ability; if they would gain Poison Use as a class feature (not a feat) they instead gain improved poison use (swift action application time).
    — +2 bonus to hit enemies which are flat-footed or otherwise denied their Dex bonus to AC, and on attacks of opportunity.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Rogue (not actually used).

    Axion (Lawful world tend towards artifice):
    — –2 Strength, +2 Intelligence.
    —Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
    —A goblin’s base land speed is 20 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +2 racial bonus on saving throws versus Poison
    — 1 point of bonus essentia.
    — Cobalt Mechanic: may invest essentia into this ability to gain a +2 to Craft, Open Locks and Disable Device for every point of essentia invested.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Artificer (not actually used).


    Hobgoblins:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Bael (Evil world):
    — +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
    —A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
    — Weapon Improvisation: Hobgoblins only suffer a -2 for using improvised weapons or weapons they are not proficient in.
    — +2 on saving throws versus disease and poison.
    — 2 Bonus Essentia.
    — Hellforged Soul: A bael hobgoblin may invest essentia in this ability to gain a +X competence bonus to melee attacks rolls and a +Xbonus to weapon damage on a critical hit (this is then multiplied as normal). X is equal to the amount of essentia invested in this ability.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages:
    Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Warblade (not used).
    —Level adjustment +1.

    Nexan (unaligned world):
    —+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
    —A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
    — Weapon Improvisation: Hobgoblins only suffer a -2 for using improvised weapons or weapons they are not proficient in.
    — +2 on saving throws versus disease and poison.
    — 1 Bonus Essentia.
    — Cobalt Charge as a bonus feat.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages:
    Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Warblade (not used).
    —Level adjustment +1.

    Axion (Lawful world):
    —+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom.
    —A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    — +4 racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
    — Weapon Improvisation: Hobgoblins only suffer a -2 for using improvised weapons or weapons they are not proficient in.
    — +2 on saving throws versus disease and poison.
    — 2 Bonus Essentia.
    — Aura of Oppresion: An axion hobgoblin radiates a malignant aura that they may invest essentia into. All enemies within 10-ft suffer a penalty on saving throws against mind-affecting and fear effects equal to the essentia invested.
    —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
    —Favored Class: Knight (not used).
    —Level adjustment +1.


    Elves:
    Spoiler
    Show

    _ +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength: Elves are graceful but frail. An elf’s grace makes her naturally better at stealth and archery.
    _ Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
    _ Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
    _ Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against mind-affecting and/or enchantment spells or effects (only applied once against any single ability).
    _ Low-light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
    _ 1 bonus Essentia.
    _ Elf Senses: May invest racial essentia into this ability to gain a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks per point of essentia invested. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it. An elf’s senses are so keen that she practically has a sixth sense about hidden portals.
    _ Elven Weapon Mastery: May invest racial essentia into this ability to gain a +1 competence bonus to hit with elven weapons (longswords, rapiers, shortswords, shortbows, longbows, other types of bows that are not crossbows, or any weapon with elven in its name) per point of essentia invested in this ability.
    _Bonus Languages/Favored Class: As regular elf.


    Dwarf (actually a template not a subrace):
    Spoiler
    Show
    — Wis +2, Cha +2.
    — 2 points of bonus essentia.
    — Dwarf Combat: May place essentia in this ability to increase any racial combat bonuses they have, increasing the attack bonus and dodge bonus granted by 1 for every point of essentia invested.
    — Soul Resilience: May place essentia in this ability to increase their dwarven bonuses on Fort saves versus spells and poison by +1 for every point of essentia invested. They retain the normal dwarven bonus to saves versus spells that require Will and Reflex saves.
    — One with the Earth: A soulforged dwarf gains a +1 to melee attack rolls and weapon damage when both he and his opponent are in contact with the ground.
    — Split Chakra bonus feat (for the Waist or Hands chakras only).
    — LA: +1.


    Anything you can say is appreciated. I intend to work on orcs a bit too, to differentiate the ones on the evil world (infused with dark energy), normal world (they might be normal), and chaotic aligned world (infused with chaotic energy?), and maybe more afterward. I chose Goblins and Hobgoblins first, though, because they were weak for their LA and easier to modify than say Orcs (which have their good points already).
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2010-09-01 at 12:35 PM.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Banned
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    I recommend giving free Improved Essentia Capacity to some of these races, since that's one of the biggest Incarnum problems.

    Currently, none of them have that sort of stuff.

    Also, hobgoblins don't have +Intimidate and good survivability. That's for orcs. Hobgoblins are about as good at surviving as humans. What makes them speshul is better stats and +Move silently, which you don't have yet. And LA +1? Je n'aime pas.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    I guess my ideas on hobgoblins was influenced by Dragon Magazine's Ecology of the Hobgoblin where it talked about their ability to survive, their sadomasochism, and ability to survive ritualistic self-torture performed as proof of manhood. Although I'd also argue that even without that hobgoblins are better known for their ability to survive things than orcs, with their racial Con bonus (which orcs don't get). Orcs smash (+4 Str), hobgoblins survive (+2 Con). Although it would have made more sense to give goblins the same bonuses as they often live in worse conditions.

    Intimidate was because of their warrior-race that takes slaves aspect. Hobgoblins fight in legions, strangely silent ones I'll admit (actually that makes them creepier), they're very much about throwing their weight around. They do it with class and charisma instead of brute force like an orc though. Again I might be influenced by the Ecology of the Hobgoblin (I wish I could find that issue of Dragon Magazine again it was one of the articles that were really worth it) and the fluff in MM IV or V.

    Also Improved Essentia Capacity only works for Incarnum feats which means only one of the types of hobgoblins could use it right out of the box, although with +1 LA they could probably use some more boosting, so I'll probably give it to them once I have an idea what to give to the other hobgoblin types.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Banned
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    I'm not talking about the inferences you're looking for; I'm talking about what the MM has. It gives hobs +2 to Con and Dex I think, and +4 Move Silently.

    They don't have orc's survivability (and I'm pretty sure orcs live in worse conditions... hobs, to my knowledge, have a large and functional society akin to feudal japan or something. Orcs usually have tribes and stuff).

    And I do remember reading about hobgoblins making good rogues.

    As for improved essentia capacity... well, it's not a fantastic ability. LA +0 races should get at least one of it for free, since it bumps up the weak incarnum classes.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aran Banks View Post
    As for improved essentia capacity... well, it's not a fantastic ability. LA +0 races should get at least one of it for free, since it bumps up the weak incarnum classes.
    I've never heard incarnum classes (except soulborn) were weak, but instead that they were some of the better balanced classes. Besides most of the power of incarnum classes comes from their soulmelds not incarnum feats (cobalt charge is useful with pounce, and the others can get you some extra essentia if you decide they're worth it), which actually just makes it more of a useless ability.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    As I comment, do note that I'm not much of an optimizer. So my responses probably aren't useful for a high-optimization game - I'm mostly looking at low-to-mid optimization. ^_^

    Goblins: You said your goal was to make goblins more on-par with other LA 0 races, so...

    Nexan: Still seem underpowered - goblins in general are kinda bleh, and Nexan Goblins are pretty much them with midnight cloak. As-is, if you let Midnight's Cloak boost all three abiliites, they have to put their racialpoint of essentia to /match/ normal goblins, which kind of nulls it as a bonus. I'd at least give them all three, and probably drop the charisma penalty to put them in line with other LA 0 races.

    Baelian: The bonus to hit people in circumstance is neat. Consider dropping either the charisma or strength penalty, however.

    Axion: Uh, Cobalt Mechanic doesn't help their being an artificer in particular, but sure. You cut their land speed for some reason - I'd putthem back at 30 and drop one of the penalties, and then I'm actually somewhat up in the air - that would make them competitive, although they still could use a little nudge somewhere.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Hobgoblin: Army manz is what I usually think, but that's neither here nor there. ^_^

    Bael: I think that's actually good. +2 to three physical stats (Especially constitution in this case), /two/ essentia, the ability to plug this essentia to get them bonuses to-hit and on crits, and the mild weapon improvisation works out for a LA+1 - that actually feels worth the LA, which is good.

    Nexan: They're notably more meh than the Bael - again we're getting to the 'I dunno if I'd spend a LA on that'. If it had 2 essentia as well we'd be closer, as essentia is useful. At the very least, make it a small pool of similar combat-focused feats (Like, a small array of the essentia-for-combat-bonuses feats)

    Axion: I do think I understand why the intimidate bonus is there, but that does feel slightly odd. No skill fits that particularly, however. The Aura of Oppression is very effective for the slaver-mentality you seem to be focusing for, and does the schtick well - it's only mind-affecting effects, however. You may want to make it 'also intimdiate checks' or something, since as stated the Axion have to work with actual spellcasters to /do/ the mind-affecting (unless that was the goal?)

    I'll comment on the final two categories a bit later ^_^
    Last edited by Kantolin; 2010-08-31 at 05:39 PM.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

    ~ Final Fantasy Tactics

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantolin View Post
    As I comment, do note that I'm not much of an optimizer. So my responses probably aren't useful for a high-optimization game - I'm mostly looking at low-to-mid optimization. ^_^

    Goblins: You said your goal was to make goblins more on-par with other LA 0 races, so...

    Nexan: Still seem underpowered - goblins in general are kinda bleh, and Nexan Goblins are pretty much them with midnight cloak. As-is, if you let Midnight's Cloak boost all three abiliites, they have to put their racialpoint of essentia to /match/ normal goblins, which kind of nulls it as a bonus. I'd at least give them all three, and probably drop the charisma penalty to put them in line with other LA 0 races.

    Baelian: The bonus to hit people in circumstance is neat. Consider dropping either the charisma or strength penalty, however.

    Axion: Uh, Cobalt Mechanic doesn't help their being an artificer in particular, but sure. You cut their land speed for some reason - I'd putthem back at 30 and drop one of the penalties, and then I'm actually somewhat up in the air - that would make them competitive, although they still could use a little nudge somewhere.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Hobgoblin: Army manz is what I usually think, but that's neither here nor there. ^_^

    Bael: I think that's actually good. +2 to three physical stats (Especially constitution in this case), /two/ essentia, the ability to plug this essentia to get them bonuses to-hit and on crits, and the mild weapon improvisation works out for a LA+1 - that actually feels worth the LA, which is good.

    Nexan: They're notably more meh than the Bael - again we're getting to the 'I dunno if I'd spend a LA on that'. If it had 2 essentia as well we'd be closer, as essentia is useful. At the very least, make it a small pool of similar combat-focused feats (Like, a small array of the essentia-for-combat-bonuses feats)

    Axion: I do think I understand why the intimidate bonus is there, but that does feel slightly odd. No skill fits that particularly, however. The Aura of Oppression is very effective for the slaver-mentality you seem to be focusing for, and does the schtick well - it's only mind-affecting effects, however. You may want to make it 'also intimdiate checks' or something, since as stated the Axion have to work with actual spellcasters to /do/ the mind-affecting (unless that was the goal?)

    I'll comment on the final two categories a bit later ^_^
    Axion goblins got a little weakened because +2 Int is better for a wizard than +2 Dex is for anybody and I'm wary of races that get Int bonuses without LA (and they're small which is really useful then).

    I'll probably boost Nexan Goblins, also Nexan Hobgoblins get an extra essentia from their bonus feat (Cobalt Charge gives you 1 essentia for taking it) in addition to their racial essentia.

    And lastly I made the Aura of Oppression also work for fear effects which means it works on the modified opposed level checks for Intimidate (since they include modifiers to saves versus fear).
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Nexan Hobgoblins get an extra essentia from their bonus feat (Cobalt Charge gives you 1 essentia for taking it) in addition to their racial essentia.
    Ahh, yes, I had forgotten.

    That definitely makes it closer, but well... even as a charging character, I'd rather have hellforged soul than Cobalt Charge. They need some other mild kicker to help them out, I think.

    Axion goblins got a little weakened because +2 Int is better for a wizard than +2 Dex is for anybody and I'm wary of races that get Int bonuses without LA (and they're small which is really useful then).
    That makes a little sense, but what you have there is a fairly meh race overall. If they existed in a complete vaccum of +Mental races then it may be okay, but they have to compete with (say) Grey Elves and a small bevy of other subraces.

    In addition, giving them the standard goblin movement speed of 30 and dropping either of the penalties is very unlikely to aid a wizard in particular - especially if the penalty that's removed is strength. After all, Strength and Charisma are two relatively useless stats for a wizard, so all that would do is bolster the race overall, not make it a better wizard per se.

    And lastly I made the Aura of Oppression also work for fear effects which means it works on the modified opposed level checks for Intimidate (since they include modifiers to saves versus fear).
    Also something I had forgotten. Scratch my comments there, then - guess I was rushing too much. ^_^

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Elves:
    This seems to give them a bit of a boost as this is a notable improvement over the standard elf. Elf senses is cool, although you may want to put a clause along the lines of 'They get the free search so long as they have at least one point of essentia in this ability'

    I'm curious about Elven Weapon Mastery, however. It seems to replace the typical weapon proficiencies elves get, while replacing it with a bonus that's inferior unless you are already proficient with it. Was that the intent - to make it more for Elven Fighters and less for Elven Wizards and the like?

    If you meant to add that included to proficiency, I'm really hesitant there - that's a surprisingly potent ability for LA 0, as they by default have a leg up on other classes with this particularly at archery, although admittedly less so in melee although it does effectively remove their strength penalty to-hit.

    If you meant to utilize that to replace proficiency, then I'm again unsure - that means elven rangers and fighters get a boost, while elven spellcasters (and notably, elven incarnates/totemists) get a slap to the face. It also hurts elven rogues and bards. Either way, it could work - it just shifts elves into a more fightery race (Which isn't /wrong/ per se, just abnormal).

    So I dunno overall. ^_^ That's a potent ability (I mean, people tout Knowledge Devotion and it's pretty similar to this but costs you skill points), but not the end-all. What it does to elves as flavor is most curious, though. Perhaps an 'either proficiency or bonus'?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dwarf Template:
    So a dwarf with this is +2 Con, +2 Wis?

    Regardless, wow. Those are some extremely useful abilities - the only reason I could see myself not taking this template is if I was select spellcasters, and if I used Wisdom (or sort of Charisma), getting a bonus to my casting stat and a +2 to my saves (Making it a +4) for a level is pretty decent.

    For a fighter-type, now, you're given very slim reason not to take this. You get a bonus to smacking people in melee on the very likely occurance that you're both standing on the ground, or the somewhat less likely (game-dependant) occurance that they're orcs or goblins. That's pretty awesome itself, and the ability to walk around with functionally a +2 to saves (making it a +4) just seals the deal. Split Chakra is then icing.

    But more helpfully: Is it fair? These abilities basically mean dwarves physically hit harder than other races unless you're flying (and not an orc or goblin), and can be particularly insane to target with spells - a total of +4 to saves at level 6 is pretty wicked. A dwarf who then actually /uses/ incarnum might be able to get multiples of these at once - one level of Incarnate or Totemist and you can (from level 6) get a +2 to saves /and/ a +2 to attack rolls and weapon damage, and that's if you don't then keep jumping up in essenita (which will eventually boost those numbers).

    That /may/ be worth LA+1, but it's at least on the higher end of it. I'm not sure what Split Chakra does to incarnum users as all the games I've played incarnum-types in ended up being incredibly poor for getting things that take up slots. ^_^ So I'm not sure how to help judge that one.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

    ~ Final Fantasy Tactics

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    On the elves I intended it to replace the normal proficiencies initially, although last night I started second guessing it (it seems mean to totemists/incarnates). I'm thinking about giving them back their weapon proficiencies and changing the competence bonus in some way.

    On the goblins, I rarely allow grey elves so I didn't consider them as heavily as I ought to have in the balance issue. They do have several noticeable advantages over grey elves, though. Small size (+1 to AC and attacks), which is in this case slightly worse than +2 Dex (which also applies to Ref, and more importantly Init) and no Con penalty (which is the only stat other than Int which can really hurt a wizard). They also have essentia which has to be useful to a wizard in some way... umm maybe some of the incarnum feats (okay not much). I'll probably drop the Cha penalty and think about allowing their invested essentia to help Use Magic Device checks as well.

    The dwarves are probably problematic. Compared to a normal dwarf they gain 2 to a dump stat (opens some options but not the most) and 2 Wis which helps for casters (but the LA hurts a lot for casters). They become quite good against goblinoids and giants, and since it's essentia they don't need to invest it ahead of time. Perhaps cut their bonus essentia down to one? Or make the improved save bonus only apply to Fort saves versus spells or poison?
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I'll probably drop the Cha penalty and think about allowing their invested essentia to help Use Magic Device checks as well.
    That could make sense, but do watch out - Use Magic Device is the one skill I'd call particularly powerful, so you'll want to go easy on being able to easily boost it.

    Perhaps cut their bonus essentia down to one? Or make the improved save bonus only apply to Fort saves versus spells or poison?
    I think the easier response would be to remove the split chakra, and then remove or nerf something else. As it stands, a free +2 to hit and damage is several levels of awesome, and that's pretty much what this is. But I'm unsure if lowering their numbers would make the race terribly worthwhile - it has a level adjustment, it needs to have something to make that worth your time.

    So I suppose I'm not being helpful again, heh. Cutting the essentia would encourage a level of an incarnum class to try to compensate, but that's alright enough as that seems to be the goal. Making the save only apply to fort saves may work as well.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

    ~ Final Fantasy Tactics

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantolin View Post
    That could make sense, but do watch out - Use Magic Device is the one skill I'd call particularly powerful, so you'll want to go easy on being able to easily boost it.



    I think the easier response would be to remove the split chakra, and then remove or nerf something else. As it stands, a free +2 to hit and damage is several levels of awesome, and that's pretty much what this is. But I'm unsure if lowering their numbers would make the race terribly worthwhile - it has a level adjustment, it needs to have something to make that worth your time.

    So I suppose I'm not being helpful again, heh. Cutting the essentia would encourage a level of an incarnum class to try to compensate, but that's alright enough as that seems to be the goal. Making the save only apply to fort saves may work as well.
    They only get a +1 to hit and damage when both touching the ground (good at low levels, not as good at high) which makes up somewhat for the loss of a level. They can get an additional +2 to hit goblinoids and orcs which can be useful but doesn't add anything to damage.

    I did cut the save bonus to only apply to Fort saves, although I'm worried now that the class isn't as good as just taking a level in fighter (+2 to Fort, +1 to hit, bonus feat, 1d10 hp, and skill points).

    Edit: Also finally got around to removing one of the ability score penalties on each goblin species.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2010-09-01 at 12:36 PM.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    I suppose the question is then, how often do your games stay on the ground?

    In games I'm used to, generally speaking, most people remain on the ground with the /option/ to fly. If they have incentive to believe flight is focal then many of them can, but most fighter-types have 'I fight on the ground, and have this correlary prepared in case the opponent tries to fly' as their mentality. ^_^

    If this is indeed uncommon to be on the ground from level 9ish on, then it may be okay as-is. Sorry, in my games we /can/ fly but generally hold of on it until it looks like it would be useful to do so. ^_^ Unoptimized, remember?

    Either way, it still seems potent, but you've gotten my explanation thereon. ^_^ It's certainly not to a crazy level or anything, so hey.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

    ~ Final Fantasy Tactics

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Erutnevda

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    A lot of my games never end up taking to the air (only the warlock flies), but even then +1 to hit and damage isn't much when they're losing a level. With 1 level of cleric compared to a dwarf Fighter 1/Cleric 1 they're arguably better (+2 Wis, same bonus to hit if the opponent is on the ground, +1 better if they're goblins and on the ground, worse Fort saves although only by 1 against spells, minus 6 + Con hp, minus 2 + Int skill points, same number of feats but 1 less useful 1, delayed access to PrCs requiring BAB/base save/skill ranks) but compared to single classed cleric they get +2 Wis and +1 damage +1 to hit goblins that are on the ground, and a feat they won't use for 4 + Con hp, 2 + Int skill points, worse Will save (but better Wis) and a level of spellcasting which is also a fairly close trade. Compared to single classed fighter they are actually a little weaker (+1 damage to ground bound enemies, +1 to hit goblins, delayed save progression but better Will saves, delayed extra attacks). The real comparison to be made is with incarnum using classes as many of their racial abilities are best for them and in that case they might be getting a little too much. I'm not familiar enough with Incarnum classes to judge, though. Might remove Split Chakra, it only helps people with soul melds who already get more out of their racial essentia. I'll consider it.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Incarnum friendly subraces (PEACH)

    The idea behind flight is not "does the fighter get to punch better?"

    It's "how far away can the warmage/archer/incarnate get so he can shoot fireballs/arrows/acid safely?" Flight gives you [immunity: melee], and using spells with a large enough range can get you [immunity: ranged], while still making you useful. THAT is why flight is amazing. Anybody who doesn't want to be in the thick of things will use your raptoran to take to the skies. It'll be especially useful if most of the group doesn't fly, because that means the people who do are totally OK and the people on the ground are screwed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •