[3.5] Ubercharging Question

[Crow]

I am not too familiar with ubercharger builds, so I was wondering if somebody could help me out with these questions.

When your ubercharger attacks creatures with impressive reach, how do you avoid getting pummeled into oblivion from attacks of opportunity? Do you just suck it up and absorb it? Or is there some way to mitigate them?

Also, am I correct in that when facing a creature with greater than 10ft reach, you only provoke an attack of opportunity for one of the squares of movement? Or can you provoke multiple times (if the enemy has combat reflexes) enroute to the attack?

Last question, assuming you have the actions to do so, can you teleport as part of your movement during a charge attack?

Thanks.

[tyckspoon]

Equal or exceed it's reach- being Large with a reach weapon gets you 20 feet, and that's without really trying (any sort of cheap Enlarge effect will do it.) That's enough to match the reach of a Gargantuan creature, so you can charge without provoking (you provoke by moving out of the threatened square, not into it, unless the creature has specific feats or abilities to halt chargers.) If you're actually trying you can get your reach to the point where you will be 'too close to charge' from about 40 feet away.

For the AoO question: One provoking action only provokes once for any condition it meets. If you move through multiple threatened squares, you will- in the absence of special abilities or conditions that cause extra AoO triggers- only provoke once.

[Swok]

Another way to help with soaking AoOs is to stack miss chances.

[CyMage]

If you have access to Maneuvers, most of the White Raven charge strikes let you ignore AoO.

[Reynard]

And Charging Minotaur, but that's more for bull rushes.

[RebelRogue]

For the AoO question: One provoking action only provokes once for any condition it meets. If you move through multiple threatened squares, you will- in the absence of special abilities or conditions that cause extra AoO triggers- only provoke once.

This! If you are designing an opponent for an übercharger, the Hold the Line Feat will give you another AoO. And of course, Large and in Charge is guaranteed to frustrate the charger to no end

[Frosty]

Remember that when you use Shock Trooper, your AC plummets into the single-digits, so the AoO WILL hit unless you have some sort of miss-chance. If the enemy is prepared, the AoO can be something like a Grapple or a Trip attempt, possibly stopping your charge completely.

[The Rabbler]

Remember that when you use Shock Trooper, your AC plummets into the single-digits, so the AoO WILL hit unless you have some sort of miss-chance. If the enemy is prepared, the AoO can be something like a Grapple or a Trip attempt, possibly stopping your charge completely.

or they could have evasive reflexes.

[Frosty]

Or, there's that one tactical Feat called Elusive Target that just completely negates your Power Attack damage. No BBEG should be without that feat

[Person_Man]

How to make an Ubercharger:

1) Optimize Power Attack

2) Get Pounce and Free Movement

3) Improve your size/reach

4) Get a good battlefield control combo (Trip, Stand Still, Bull Rush, etc).

5) Invest in Tumble cross class (if needed).

Charge into your closest enemies. If there's a particularly strong enemy you want to target, use free movement beforehand to line up your Charge or Tumble directly past or through your enemies - remember, Tumble DCs are fixed and Skills are easy to boost. Deal massive damage, killing everyone within your reach if possible. If anyone tries to counter attack via melee, they generally will need to move through your threatened area, which will usually provoke an AoO, allowing you to lock them down, push them away, Daze them, whatever.

The entire Ubercharger build can be accomplished by ECL 7-12ish via a wide variety of options. But you'll still be vulnerable to ranged attacks, magic, psionics, and supernatural abilities. So plan the rest of your build accordingly.

[Crow]

Wait, so you can tumble as part of a charge?

What about a teleport?

[Greenish]

With HiPS and good enough Hide/MS, one could hide and move silently while charging (-20 penalty to both).

Then retreat and re-hide with Travel Devotion.

[Edit]: I seem to recall Complete Adventurer (or Scoundrel, I can never remember which) had something to say about tumbling whilst charging.

Teleport is a no go, unless you have something that allows you to get charge equivalent without actually charging (such as Battle Jump).

[Person_Man]

Wait, so you can tumble as part of a charge?

Yes. Charge is only limited by terrain and obstacles (which themselves can be avoided in a variety of ways), not AoO or dodging AoO via Tumble.

What about a teleport?

Charge is a Full Round Action. So if you can Teleport as a Swift or Immediate Action (Flicker, Psionic Dimension Door, Anklet of Translocation, etc) then yes, you can. Though it's debatable as to whether you could do it in the middle of the Charge, or just before or after.


There are also a variety of ways to go ethereal, which adds even more fun.

[Tharck]

Person Man. You're a hero of mine. Seriously im going to make a floating cheese headed man out of wicker and the hopes and shattered dreams of children and worship you.

[Frosty]

Wait, so you can tumble as part of a charge?

What about a teleport?

Don't forget that Tumbling reduces your speed to 1/2, swo your positioning needs to be better in order to do so.

[herrhauptmann]

Don't forget that Tumbling reduces your speed to 1/2, swo your positioning needs to be better in order to do so.

Can't you do full movement, at the expense of higher tumble checks?

[RebelRogue]

Can't you do full movement, at the expense of higher tumble checks?

Yes. It's imposes a -10 on your check.

[Person_Man]

Don't forget that Tumbling reduces your speed to 1/2, swo your positioning needs to be better in order to do so.

DC 25 allows you to Tumble at full speed. I'm sure there are magic items out there that boost it by +10. So any class with non-dumped Dex should be able to Tumble at full speed by mid levels with a moderate investment of 20ish Skill Points (10 if you have it as a class Skill).

[herrhauptmann]

DC 25 allows you to Tumble at full speed. I'm sure there are magic items out there that boost it by +10. So any class with non-dumped Dex should be able to Tumble at full speed by mid levels with a moderate investment of 20ish Skill Points (10 if you have it as a class Skill).

Get a ring of tumbling. I believe cost is Bonus squared times 100. Might cost more to put it onto armor though

[Endarire]

Alternatively, Shadow Blink or otherwise "teleport" from out of range to in range so you don't provoke. A Hood has suggestions.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Or, there's that one tactical Feat called Elusive Target that just completely negates your Power Attack damage. No BBEG should be without that feat

Where can I find this?

[Keld Denar]

Complete Warrior, in the Tactical Feat section which is slightly after the general feat section. Page 110 to be exact.

Also, it only works against your Dodge target, so it doesn't work if you haven't acted yet this round, or if if you took on of the Pseudo-dodge feats like Expeditious Dodge or Desert Wind Dodge, since they don't assign Dodge targets.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Why, thank you!

[Zieu]

I am FULLY CHARGED!






Couldn't resist. My apologies.

[Eldariel]

I am FULLY CHARGED!






Couldn't resist. My apologies.

Tangentially related, and obligatory

[Funkyodor]

Just to make sure I'm reading the Charge special attack correctly. Doesn't it state that even if you get multiple attacks, you can only make one attack during a charge? If you use Pounce to get multiple attacks afterwards, Shock Trooper doesn't apply and the characters Power Attack penalties apply as normal plus the AC penalty from Shock Trooper. So really it's only one good solid high damage hit and a flurry of misses?

[Greenish]

If you use Pounce to get multiple attacks afterwards, Shock Trooper doesn't apply and the characters Power Attack penalties apply as normal plus the AC penalty from Shock Trooper.

No, the bonuses and penalties from PA apply for the whole round.

[true_shinken]

Yes. Charge is only limited by terrain and obstacles (which themselves can be avoided in a variety of ways), not AoO or dodging AoO via Tumble.

Just to clarify:
Tumble restricts you to one-half your speed. With a -10 modifier, you can move your speed. Charge allows you to move up to twice your speed.
So depending on how much you move during your charge, you can try using Tumble or not.

Also, it only works against your Dodge target, so it doesn't work if you haven't acted yet this round, or if if you took on of the Pseudo-dodge feats like Expeditious Dodge or Desert Wind Dodge, since they don't assign Dodge targets.

That's... debatable. About Expeditious Dodge, for example: after you mov ethe required X foot, wouldn't all other characters be your 'designated Dodge target'?

[Malbordeus]

theres also a magic item that lets you ignore AoO's

or just get a DR
Blink/greater blink?
if you have concealment you cant get aoo'd - so invisibility/blur/darkness?

thres a load of ways to avoid it.

[Greenish]

if you have concealment you cant get aoo'd - so invisibility/blur/darkness?

Blur and Darkness wouldn't work, since only total concealment prevents AoO.