[3.5] Pure Damage Output

[Volomon]

Ok party consists of one bard who's going virtuoso with sublime and a conjurer/mage of arcane order/master specialist/archmage, the last guy wants to be a heavy handed damage dealer.

I was thinking Barbarian/Bear Warrior, but is there something better for pure raw damage dealing? He'd easily get buffs from the other two party members so I'm not all that worried about AC.

Books available all 3.5 books aka no 3.0 like Defenders of the Faith.

[Diarmuid]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166459

[Volomon]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166459

Ya I knew someone was going to link that but the Miniature Book is to over the top for my DM we don't use Miniatures so that book is out of the question. Also I can't use any books that are from a different setting than the one were playing which is Greyhawk, so like no Eberron, or Forgotten Realms.

[Milskidasith]

Ok party consists of one bard who's going virtuoso with sublime and a conjurer/mage of arcane order/master specialist/archmage, the last guy wants to be a heavy handed damage dealer.

I was thinking Barbarian/Bear Warrior, but is there something better for pure raw damage dealing? He'd easily get buffs from the other two party members so I'm not all that worried about AC.

Pure damage dealing is generally done by ubercharging. However, I particularly like a TWF Warblade with Sneak Attack (Assassin's Stance), Craven (You never leave assassin's stance; DM's call if you qualify),Stormguard Warrior and a ton of tiger claw manuevers (and diamond mind, for cascading blade and Time Stands Still). You can get massive damage bonuses on each hit, burn your iteratives that are unlikely to hit on getting more damage next round, and if you pick up some AoO granting feats, also massively boost your attack rolls (by neglecting to use your AoOs).

The build requires about level 10 to fully pull off, but at that time you can easily put out at least a hundred damage a round pretty much all day, and with a belt of battle/buffs, you can put out a few hundred in a couple rounds every so oftne.

[Duke of URL]

Books available all 3.5 books aka no 3.0 like Tome of Battle.

Tome of Battle is a 3.5 book -- the last one printed, IIRC.

[Volomon]

Pure damage dealing is generally done by ubercharging. However, I particularly like a TWF Warblade with Sneak Attack (Assassin's Stance), Craven (You never leave assassin's stance; DM's call if you qualify),Stormguard Warrior and a ton of tiger claw manuevers (and diamond mind, for cascading blade and Time Stands Still). You can get massive damage bonuses on each hit, burn your iteratives that are unlikely to hit on getting more damage next round, and if you pick up some AoO granting feats, also massively boost your attack rolls (by neglecting to use your AoOs).

The build requires about level 10 to fully pull off, but at that time you can easily put out at least a hundred damage a round pretty much all day, and with a belt of battle/buffs, you can put out a few hundred in a couple rounds every so oftne.

Oh ya I guess Tome of Battle is 3.5 I just look at the book and could have sworn all Tomes were 3.0.

[Greenish]

Books available all 3.5 books aka no 3.0 like Tome of Battle.

A nitpick: Tome of Battle is 3.5.

That said, for pure damage a barbarian is an excellent choice, and bear warrior provides a nifty bonus, though two-handing a weapon would probably win. Frenzied Berserker is an option for raw damage too, though it's frenzy has a few drawbacks.

[Milskidasith]

Warblade is 3.0. I can only use books from 3.5.

The tome of battle was practically the last 3.5e book written, and it was done to playtest concepts for 4e. Why do you think it is 3.0?

[Ernir]

Ok party consists of one bard who's going virtuoso with sublime and a conjurer/mage of arcane order/master specialist/archmage, the last guy wants to be a heavy handed damage dealer.

I was thinking Barbarian/Bear Warrior, but is there something better for pure raw damage dealing? He'd easily get buffs from the other two party members so I'm not all that worried about AC.

Books available all 3.5 books aka no 3.0 like Tome of Battle.

Assuming the casters play nice, Bear Warrior should work just fine. It's not the best, but he gets to be so angry he turns into a bear, so it should balance itself out.

(ToB is late 3.5, not 3.0, by the way.)

[hamishspence]

Tome & Blood is the only non-3rd party book with "Tome" in its name, that is 3.0, that I can think of- maybe that's the one being thought of?

I've seen plenty of "BoED is 3.0" claims- again, that's an error, it's very early 3.5.

[Volomon]

Tome & Blood is the only non-3rd party book with "Tome" in its name, that is 3.0, that I can think of- maybe that's the one being thought of?

I've seen plenty of "BoED is 3.0" claims- again, that's an error, it's very early 3.5.

Ya for some reason I thought all the 3.0 class books had Tome in the title. Like Defenders of the Faith. I haven't seen those books in a few years I just remember the art style.

Any more builds, less nitpicking.

[Last Laugh]

If you go barb/bear warrior throw in a few levels of Warshaper (immune to crits, increased nat weapon size, +4 str/con. all of these are only while in a bear form)

if you want damage check out Frenzied Berserker (Same book as bear warrior)
They get an improved power attack which rocks, use it with two handed weaponry.

Barb 1 (Use Complete Champions lion totem varient to get Pounce at level 1 instead of fast move)/warblade or crusader 5 (if you dislike tome of battle any full BaB class will do. Fighter 4/something 1 is fine)/Fzerker Asmany as you like
Warforged Dragonborn for +4 con/ -2 dex/ -2cha/-2wis warforged goodness, flight
Use power attack/leap attack (dunno which book Cadv?) for +2xpwr attack damage (pwr attack damage increases with fzerker levels)

Have the wizards pick up grease, you cannot balance in a frenzy when you start mage smashing have them cast grease.

[Keld Denar]

Fistbear Bearfist is a pretty solid build. Singularly dependant on Con and Str, both of which get pumped to massive proportions due to turning into a huge bear. Probably a decent idea to swap the 5 levels in Bear Lord with 3 more levels of Bear Warrior, and 2 levels of something, though. Still, not bad as presented.

I built another dorf build that is similar a while back, but uses a Dwarven Urgrosh. Its an unusual weapon, which is awesome. The trick is, if you only use one side of the weapon at a time, you basically treat it as a 2handed weapon. It still qualifies for all of the neato junk in the Exotic Weapon Master PrC though, like Flurry of Strikes for extra attacks, and Uncanny Blow for 2x Str bonus to damage. The build went a little something like:
Ranger1/DwarfFighter2/Barbarian2/Deepwarden2/EWM2/OccultSlayer5/PiousTemplar6. A pretty tough nut to crack, virtually immune to magic, great Con means tons of HP and a high Fort and Will save (and Mettle), great damage output from EWM, and even a decent AC (which goes UP when you rage) thanks to Deepwarden. Splash a little Mad Foam Rager in there and you've got a resiliant never-say-die beatstick who relies very little on caster resources to be truely awesome.

[Greenish]

The trick is, if you only use one side of the weapon at a time, you basically treat it as a 2handed weapon. It still qualifies for all of the neato junk in the Exotic Weapon Master PrC though, like Flurry of Strikes for extra attacks, and Uncanny Blow for 2x Str bonus to damage.

I'm not sure double weapons qualify for Uncanny Blow (which requires one-handed exotic weapon). Double weapons (aside from Ghost Spike) are two-handed, no?

[Keld Denar]

Read the section on double weapons. Its not explicit, but it is implied. The relevant quote is something along the lines of "using this weapon in one hand means you can't use both sides". In theory then, you could wield either end of the Urgrosh with a non-Animated Shield. If you can use it in one hand, it can be considered a 1 handed exotic weapon, and Uncanny Blow would apply any time you use both hands.

[Milskidasith]

The bear's damage output pales in comparison to the TWF build I suggested; I could write up the exact build, but I'm AFB at the moment. As long as you can sneak attack it, it's probably going to get hurt very badly. It does use Sun Swords (From an adventure book; bastard swords that count as short swords whenever useful, including being light and being martial weapons, so it qualifies for lots of things), but even without those it still puts out some pretty great DPS per round even for level 10, and at level 20 it can rather easily break 1k damage without even novaing daily items (but with one round prep time, granted).

[dextercorvia]

I like Human SLTBarb1/WildshapeRanger1/Fighter2/FotF3/BearWarrior5/FullBAB4/WarHulk4

Feats/Abilities:

Human: Power Attack
1: Extra Rage
SLTBarb1: Pounce
WSRanger1: Fast Movement(Helps with jump checks)
3:Great Fortitude
Fighter1:Improved Bull Rush
Fighter2:Improved Unarmed Strike
FotF1:Con to AC, More Fast Movement(Stacks)
FotF3:Scent
BearWarrior5:BrownBear form when raging (Large)
WarHulk:Strength Bonuses when in Bear shape and other good stuff.

[Keld Denar]

it still puts out some pretty great DPS per round even for level 10, and at level 20 it can rather easily break 1k damage without even novaing daily items (but with one round prep time, granted).

The only problem with relying on Stormguard Warrior, is that for most of your career, you can be defeated simply by being ignored, and having people walk away from you at inopportune moments.

If some mofo spent a while round doing ninja flips and whipping his blades around, I'd back up and shoot him with my gun, just like Indy did.

Not saying Stormguard Warrior is a BAD feat, but it is kinda dependant on the DM playing into your fighting style, and anyone who's ever seen you fight would know when to back off to avoid the ZOMGFLURRYOFDISMEMBERMENT that comes the round after you Avalache of Blades.

The advantage of some of the other builds is that they don't depend on that trick and still do respectable damage whether or not your foe stays in melee with you or not.

[Master_Rahl22]

I'll second the TWF Warblade with Stormguard Warrior, although I hadn't thought of adding Assassin's Stance and Craven to it. You end up with lots of attacks and large static damage bonuses to all of them, very fun.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Tome of Battle is a 3.5 book -- the last one printed, IIRC.

I believe that was Elder Evils, actually

[Tytalus]

Ya for some reason I thought all the 3.0 class books had Tome in the title. Like Defenders of the Faith.

That made me smile.

[Eldariel]

The only problem with relying on Stormguard Warrior, is that for most of your career, you can be defeated simply by being ignored, and having people walk away from you at inopportune moments.

If some mofo spent a while round doing ninja flips and whipping his blades around, I'd back up and shoot him with my gun, just like Indy did.

Not saying Stormguard Warrior is a BAD feat, but it is kinda dependant on the DM playing into your fighting style, and anyone who's ever seen you fight would know when to back off to avoid the ZOMGFLURRYOFDISMEMBERMENT that comes the round after you Avalache of Blades.

To be fair, there's very little they can do if you follow up with e.g. Quicksilver Motion (or maybe just activate some Move Action Teleportation item to reach the opponent) > Pouncing Charge; ToB-types have lots of mobility so just "backing off" is hardly gonna be enough..

[Milskidasith]

The only problem with relying on Stormguard Warrior, is that for most of your career, you can be defeated simply by being ignored, and having people walk away from you at inopportune moments.

If some mofo spent a while round doing ninja flips and whipping his blades around, I'd back up and shoot him with my gun, just like Indy did.

Not saying Stormguard Warrior is a BAD feat, but it is kinda dependant on the DM playing into your fighting style, and anyone who's ever seen you fight would know when to back off to avoid the ZOMGFLURRYOFDISMEMBERMENT that comes the round after you Avalache of Blades.

The advantage of some of the other builds is that they don't depend on that trick and still do respectable damage whether or not your foe stays in melee with you or not.

Without Stormguard Warrior, you're still outputting 27 bonus damage to your 8+ attacks in a full attack routine just from sneak attack, before any other buffs. With pouncing charge, swift action jumps (and insane jump bonuses, natch), a dip for pounce at all times, belt of battle, a cloak of the phoenix for a fly speed, etc. you can pretty easily chase somebody. I'd say 240+6X str + 8X Dex + 8X Int (if they are flat footed/flanked) + 8x weapon damage in a full attack is pretty good even without stormguard warrior, and the ability to turn your missed attacks into static damage bonuses (+5 each) for next round is pretty nice.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am AWB at this time, but I would think a bloodstorm blade with blood in the water stance could rapidly turn into an whirling storm of death. You use the attack every enemy once power of bloodstorm blade to attack everything, and then rack up crits and stacking bonuses with a keen falchion.

Use lots of attacks and similer tactics to the build above, but each hit (even the low itteratives) stands a good chance to grant you a stacking bonus.

you stand a 30% chance of getting +1 to hit +1 damage every time you crit, and it stacks and keeps building untile you fail to crit for 10 rounds.

It is a viable alternative to craven + assa stance if your dm knocks that down.

[Milskidasith]

I am AWB at this time, but I would think a bloodstorm blade with blood in the water stance could rapidly turn into an whirling storm of death. You use the attack every enemy once power of bloodstorm blade to attack everything, and then rack up crits and stacking bonuses with a keen falchion.

Use lots of attacks and similer tactics to the build above, but each hit (even the low itteratives) stands a good chance to grant you a stacking bonus.

you stand a 30% chance of getting +1 to hit +1 damage every time you crit, and it stacks and keeps building untile you fail to crit for 10 rounds.

It is a viable alternative to craven + assa stance if your dm knocks that down.

That's a totally viable build, but it takes a lot longer to build up. You get more likely to hit, though.

[Elemental_Elf]

In my current campaign, one of my players built a pretty heavy hitter - Goliath Warblade with TWF. It's a fairly powerful combination since, at level 12, he has a strength in the 30's and 5-ish attacks in a full round (3 normally, 1 for TWF and 1 more for Improved TWF). His base weapon deals 2d6 damage per side, which has been enchanted to to 3d6 per side. Add in all his Maneuvers and Mithril Full Plate and you can see he's a beast in combat.

(One a side note, ToB can be very cheesy if your DM is not prepared for it).

[Greenish]

In my current campaign, one of my players built a pretty heavy hitter - Goliath Warblade with TWF. It's a fairly powerful combination since, at level 12, he has a strength in the 30's and 5-ish attacks in a full round (3 normally, 1 for TWF and 1 more for Improved TWF). His base weapon deals 2d6 damage per side

What weapons is he using? (My guess would be Large Heavy Valenar Double Scimitar.)

[true_shinken]

When it comes to damage dealing, the only thing that could beat an ubercharger is a hulking hurler.

[Greenish]

When it comes to damage dealing, the only thing that could beat an ubercharger is a hulking hurler.

Of course, with TO builds for ubercharger, hulking hurler or the hood, the damage difference is largely academic, given that they'll kill anything in any of the monster manuals in a single turn.

[Milskidasith]

Of course, with TO builds for ubercharger, hulking hurler or the hood, the damage difference is largely academic, given that they'll kill anything in any of the monster manuals in a single turn.

The thing I like about the stormguard warrior+Craven SA+TWF is that you can go from "good" damage (just full attack, use the occasional maneuver as a boost or to counter), to the same realm of "Who cares, it's dead" damage. Maybe not quite so readily (you can still miss), but past level 10 or 12 with decent optimization you can generally get enough damage to one shot most creatures of equal CR if that's truly necessary. You can also *really* easily break objects down.