dread necro vop

[nysisobli]

How would this work in your opinion?

Im tempted to give it a shot.
Also please don't turn this into a vop sucks, and so does the monk thread.

[Kish]

But we're allowed to turn it into a "dread necromancers suck" thread? *ducks*

[nysisobli]

......

HAHA

No im playing it for the flavour, not for the class but i want it to be decent in battle. So no in answer to your question no turning it into "dread necromancers suck thread"

[subject42]

If you use VoP, are you tied into the rest of the BoED rules? That might be a problem with the "undead are always evil" thing in there.

[nysisobli]

Well with the campaign im in i can pull undead from positive or negative energy, so i can make "good" undead.

[Duke of URL]

I'm not quite sure I can wrap my mind around a Dread Necromancer being able to take an Exalted feat.

In any event, while the DN is not particularly equipment-dependent, I think VoP would be a big problem. One of the main benefits of the class is creating undead servants, which will be hard to do if you can't own black onyx. Yes, you can try to rely on Fell Animate instead, but that requires setting things up so that you get to kill the beastie you want to raise (and not accidentally have a teammate do it for you), and then you'll have to do it with lower-level spells.

Doable, but difficult.

[nysisobli]

Hmmm well can you suggest a way to build a necromancer, maybe not a dread one, that uses vow of poverty?

[JoshuaZ]

Hmmm well can you suggest a way to build a necromancer, maybe not a dread one, that uses vow of poverty?

Focus on summoning undead and gaining more undead by controling/commanding/rebuking. Ignoring alignment issues this should be suboptimal but ok for a DN. Also, consider talking to your DM about maybe extending the summon list for Summon Undead so that it includes more useful undead. Also note that there's nothing (as far as I can tell) that prevents you from using onyx given to you to summon undead when the onyx isn't owned by you. This may be slightly cheesy.

[Kalim]

The issue is that most of your spells to make undead will be out of your price range with VoP.

Dread Necromancer can cast Summon Undead, but they don't last very long. You could also use Command Undead, but you would then have to hope your DM pits you against lots of undead enemies for you to steal.

You're likely better off dropping VoP and just being a Dread Necromancer with some other fluff to represent being 'good'.

[Duke of URL]

Oh, it can be done, but it's difficult.

The main point of a necromancer is creating and controlling undead. The latter is done easily through spells, because you certainly don't want to rely on rebuking (does not scale well with level at all, and especially not without specific magic items, which, with VoP, you won't have). That means relying on raising undead without cost, which leaves Fell Animate.

Since that's a +3 metamagic, we're going to focus on reducing its cost. Practical Metamagic will knock it down to +2, and applying it to an Arcane Thesis spell will drop it to +1. Much better. Incantatrix, of course, is the logical choice for metamagic abuse -- you can apply Fell Animate to ongoing spells with a spellcraft check, plus eventually you'll get to apply instant metamagic and reduce that +1 to +0 (along with reducing your other metamagic costs, such as Twin, Repeat, Split Ray, Empower, Maximize, whatever).

The get the most benefit out of VoP, you'll want to take it fairly early, so you'd better hope flaws are in play. You want to take it after you become a Necropolitan, otherwise you won't be able to pay for the ritual. So, get to level 3, go off yourself to become a Necropolitan, spending your entire wealth (beg, borrow, or steal, if you have to) for the ritual -- who cares, since you won't need any wealth soon anyway -- so, back to level 1, but not for long, as you'll gain XP quicker relative to the party. Just... stay back from the front lines, ya know?

(Necropolitan) Human Dread Necromancer 8 / Incantatrix 10 / Archmage 2
1: Sacred Vow
1Hum: Arcane Thesis (low-level offensive spell to apply Fell Animate and other metamagics to)
Flaw: Iron Will
Flaw: Eschew Materials
3: Vow of Poverty (pick your bonus Exalted feats at your discretion, but avoid Vow of Peace or Purity)
6: Fell Animate
9: Practical Metamgaic (Fell Animate)
9Icx: metamagic feat (your choice)
12: Spell Focus (necromancy)
12Icx: metamagic feat (your choice)
15: Skill Focus (spellcraft)
15Icx: metamagic feat (your choice)
18: Spell Focus (conjuration?)
18Icx: metamagic feat (your choice)

If you want to go Archmage for the last 2 levels (not a bad idea), you have to use the 12th, 15th, and 18th feats for the remaining requirements. This choice won't work without the two flaws, because then you'll need those feats to delay some of the earlier ones. Shadow Adept is a lot less costly (1 feat vs. 3, but then, Spell Focus (necromancy) is actually a good choice anyway), and more flavorful.

Remember that you cannot cast spells with a costly material or focus component.

Remember, this build is all about the Fell Animate. You won't be getting the high-end undead, but you can make hordes of skeletons and zombies. If you can make it to epic, you should take Ignore Material Components as soon as you qualify, then you can really go to town.

[nysisobli]

ok i had one other idea for a pc, i was wanting to make a dragonwrought kobold and take a prc out of the draconomicon but couldnt firgure out the best way to make it feel draconicy enough