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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    IdleMuse's Avatar

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    Question LA for Topiary Guardian?

    My DM might let me take a Topiary Guardian as a cohort/wild cohort, if I can get a general consensus on a level adjustment for it? I'm talking about the template, not the specific examples, from MM3. Any good guestimates of your own? I tried using the Savage Species advice but got nowhere.

    Thanks in advance!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    Cohort or Wild Cohort, it makes a fairly big difference. Cohort runs off of ECL. Wild Cohort runs off of Animal Companion (with an additional -3 tacked on) which in itself runs off of CR.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    IdleMuse's Avatar

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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    Just looking for the standard LA change for this template. So, if I apply it to a Pegasus (for example), which is ECL 6 (4HD +2LA), what should the final ECL be, approximately?
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    The problem is that it ignores so much of the base creatures statistics, including HD (it does leave Nat armor).

    Being a plant is worth +1 LA.
    DR that isn't penetrated by magic is worth +2 in theory (in practice slashing is so very common though)
    Tremorsense is +1 LA
    The ability scores are +1 LA.
    Freeze might be +1 LA
    Losing all its feats and Fire Vulnerability really hurt though.

    How much is gained and how much is loss varies from creature to creature. If I absolutely had to say I'd say replace the RHD, add 2 to the LA, or 1 if the creature had flight; add more if it loses RHD by having them reduced to the amount the template sets it at. But really this is a really rough estimate of the LA it ought to have and not liable to be accurate.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Assanya View Post
    Topiary is the art or practice of trimming and shaping plants into ornamental shapes. Forms can be any object or geometric shape can think of. You can buy a shrub or a tree and form yourself, or purchase one from a local nursery, which has already been formed.

    The most popular forms of hedges are "spiral", "ponpom", "Spaniel level" and "standards".
    Wait, what? Who was asking what topiary was?

    As far as an LA, I don't think that an LA can exist for templates that make a creature mindless. Weaker creatures become more powerful while more powerful creatures can become much weaker.

    If your DM allowed you to have an awakened topiary guardian, however, I'd say that the LA is around +3.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    As far as an LA, I don't think that an LA can exist for templates that make a creature mindless. Weaker creatures become more powerful while more powerful creatures can become much weaker.
    More than that, LA exists purely for creatures that can be PCs or cohorts, both of which require not being mindless.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: LA for Topiary Guardian?

    Quote Originally Posted by IdleMuse View Post
    My DM might let me take a Topiary Guardian as a cohort/wild cohort, if I can get a general consensus on a level adjustment for it? I'm talking about the template, not the specific examples, from MM3. Any good guestimates of your own? I tried using the Savage Species advice but got nowhere.
    The Template has LA -- indicating these are not suitable for cohorts. However, if your DM will allow it, I would guess it to be LA +0 for a Medium, LA +1 for a Large and LA +2 for Huge wouldn't be out of line.

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