Stone shape v. Stone golem (3.5/PF)

[Terjon]

Which wins? Stone shape targets "stone or stone object..." Golems have spell immunity which doesn't effect Stone Shape. Golems are creatures but are effected by spells that target objects such as shatter. Does stone shape effect the golem or does the golem shrug it off and pound caster of said spell?

[NelKor]

Stone shape was never ment to be used like this, but honestly i'd just let the player go with it, reward creative use of spells.

[Quietus]

I'd probably use it similarly to how Stone To Flesh works on it - they could disable it (or a part of it) for a round, no save, but it wouldn't be a win button.

[Terjon]

Yeah it turned into an argument between me and another player... And now another DM in the sandbox this took place in is trying to say it can't be done. I honestly see more evidence here and there that would suggest it as possible than I do the other way around.

I just happened to have chosen the spell for RP purposes for my sorcerer and then a game picked up and I found the golems and simply said, "I wonder..."

[Quietus]

There's always the option of pointing out that it doesn't affect stone CREATURES. It affects "stone or stone object", meaning either a rock, or an OBJECT made out of a rock. Golems are creatures, and thus not a valid target for Stone Shape. It's totally rules-lawyery, but so is "AH HAH! STONE SHAPE MEANS I CAN BEAT A STONE GOLEM NO SAVE EVERY TIME!"

[shadow_archmagi]

I'd say that it's a round or two of the golem going "OH DEAR GOD MY BITS ARE REBELLING ARRRRG" and being incapped but then recovering.

[Hirax]

Golems have magic immunity, but a few specific spells affect them, and usually those spells affect them differently than the spell would affect normal things. I think it's reasonable that stone shape could be used against the stone golem in the same way disintegrate can be used against a clay golem.

[RebelRogue]

Golems have magic immunity, but a few specific spells affect them, and usually those spells affect them differently than the spell would affect normal things. I think it's reasonable that stone shape could be used against the stone golem in the same way disintegrate can be used against a clay golem.

Stone Shape allows no SR, so the golem is affected normally. However, as noted above, it is a stone creature, and therefore arguably cannot be the subject of the spell. However, as a DM, I'd allow it to have some effect, provided the caster made a melee touch attack on the golem. The effect should be less than the spells mentioned in the monster description (those are much higher-level spells, and the effects they have on the golem are significantly less powerful than disintegration or incapacitation!), along the lines of a few d6 of damage or slowing it for a round.

[NelKor]

Stone creature or not, a Construct still counts as an object regardless. Actually this raises the very odd question of why no rules were made for using Stone Shape on stone/rock creatures but Shatter has rules for crystalline ones,,,