New DM, how to deal with a Dragon Shaman?

[Moginheden]

I just took over a D&D 3.5 game because the previous DM thought it was too much work.

One of the PCs is a dragon shaman with a gold totem dragon. He is neutral-good and a follower of Bahamut. I don't know much about dragon shamans or Bahamut, but the way he described his character's motivation is greedy, power seeking, a touch of kleptomania, and Bahamut doesn't care what he does as long as he kills the spawn of Tiamat every chance he gets.

In the first session I ever ran as a DM, I flew a white dragon over the town the PCs are in. It froze the town with it's breath weapon as it went, and created portals to risia, (plane of ice) spawning mephits for the PCs to kill. The dragon itself only took 1 pass over the town, then mumbled something and popped out of existence, (cast invisibility but they failed their listen and spellcraft checks.)

I expected the dragon shaman to be raring to go against a white dragon as it would be the spawn of Tiamat. But his character's reaction to the dragon? He shook his head, grabbed another beer and wondered aloud why the first dragon he ever met had to be white, (the character, not the player.) Then as soon as the battle was over the party got on the first boat out of town, without looking for any leads at all as to where the dragon came from. We ended the session with them reaching the mainland.

The players told me after the session that I did well as DM, and they looked forward to where the adventure was leading.

I'm a bit confused over the overall player's reaction though... they ran away from the adventure and I had to move where the dragon's lair was to the mainland so that I would have content to run in the next session. The players seems to think it was natural to assume the dragon wouldn't be on the island where the previous DM's "kill the pirate-orc" adventure was. We didn't explore much of the island at all, and I had assumed the dragon's lair would be on the same island.

I'm also trying to figure out what to do with the dragon shaman in particular. As far as I can see, Bahamut would be pissed at him for not trying to kill the white dragon. How do dragon shamans work exactly? Should I give him a dream with Bahamut berating him directly? Should Bahamut know the dragon's lair has been ret-conned to the mainland so the shaman gets away scot free? Would he lose his dragon shaman powers for running away? Would his gold totem dragon talk to him, (directly or through a vision?)

[Greenish]

One of the PCs is a dragon shaman with a gold totem dragon. He is neutral-good and a follower of Bahamut. I don't know much about dragon shamans or Bahamut, but the way he described his character's motivation is greedy, power seeking, a touch of kleptomania, and Bahamut doesn't care what he does as long as he kills the spawn of Tiamat every chance he gets.

That really doesn't sound like NG to me, and Bahamut (LG) cares for things other than slaying of chromatic dragons (even if that's quite a big deal). Not that that'd matter much for the character, since dragon shamans don't gain their (rather sad) powers from deities.

For the other parts, well, players are prone to miss elements you've considered obvious, and to trace non-existent leads. You can fly with it, or you can let them search the continent high and low while the dragon roosts on the island.

[Edit]:

How do dragon shamans work exactly?

They gain their powers from seeking to emulate dragons, not from deities, so whether Bahamut approves his actions doesn't effect his class features.

Should I give him a dream with Bahamut berating him directly?

Do gods in your setting really go to such lengths for a minor event to one of their lay followers?

Should Bahamut know the dragon's lair has been ret-conned to the mainland so the shaman gets away scot free? Would he lose his dragon shaman powers for running away?

Again, by the printed fluff, dragon shamans don't gain their powers from deities, so deities can't revoke them at will. If Bahamut is really so interested on one of his followers, he might know where the lair is, or not.

Would his gold totem dragon talk to him, (directly or through a vision?)

Dragon shamans, in my understanding, revere dragons as an abstract, not something concrete. If his totem is gold dragon, he seeks to emulate their power and majesty, but that doesn't mean he actually has a gold dragon to communicate with.

[gomipile]

Dragon shamans don't necessarily have any direct connection with their totem dragons, they just aspire to be like them. An ordinary human who has never talked to a dragon can become a dragon shaman if she wishes to gain the kind of power that dragons have.

That said, the kind of dragon shaman who serves a particular dragon, dragon god, color of dragons, council of dragons, or what have you is reasonable too. But as long as the character still wishes to gain the totem dragon's powers, the character can remain a dragon shaman, I think.

[Critical]

Was a white dragon a spawn of Tiamat and did he know it? Was the white dragon evil? If not, technically, he did nothing wrong as a follower of Bahamut, but he did wrong in terms of his alignment. Neutral Good would try to do something rather than go and get another beer. The alignment he's right now, according to what I read is at least Chaotic Neutral. Give him a warning, if it repeats have him lose his divine powers.

Actually, I forgot that they weren't casters. Basically, he is only roleplaying his alignment wrong - definitely not neutral good, chaotic neutral at best. And in that case, I think he does lose his powers. It seems to me that the player either needs that alignment for something or doesn't understand the alignment system... Comfront him OOC that his character is vastly of different alignment than it says on the sheet and see what he has to say. Really, a character who cares about nothing would probably worship a dragon that cares about nothing.

[gomipile]

Oh, and if I were GM, I'd just move the dragon's lair to the mainland and pretend it was never on the island. Sometimes the players just need a gimme to keep the story moving forward.

[Moginheden]

Well as soon as the mephits started appearing he dropped his beer and fought them helping to defend the town, so not HORRIBLY against his alignment.

[Greenish]

Was a white dragon a spawn of Tiamat and did he know it? Was the white dragon evil?

By default in most settings, dragons are colour-coded for your convenience.

[Starbuck_II]

Well as soon as the mephits started appearing he dropped his beer and fought them helping to defend the town, so not HORRIBLY against his alignment.

So NG? He roleplayed his alignment very well. Remember NG is least biased Alignment (except vs evil but than even evil hates evil).

[Vangor]

One of the PCs is a dragon shaman with a gold totem dragon. He is neutral-good and a follower of Bahamut. I don't know much about dragon shamans or Bahamut, but the way he described his character's motivation is greedy, power seeking, a touch of kleptomania, and Bahamut doesn't care what he does as long as he kills the spawn of Tiamat every chance he gets.

He is not much of a follower of Bahamut who protects the weak and encourages assistance as necessary. Further, gold dragons often offer order and wisdom to areas. While both are concerned strongly about Tiamat spawn, this is not the singular or primary purpose of either. Greedy is not something I would call any of the metallic dragons, least of all the gold dragons, nor is power-seeking, and proclaiming, without mechanical reason as a Cleric might, to be a worshiper of Bahamut only further confuses this.

If he acts in such a manner he will lose his good alignment quickly, and no dragon shaman can be true neutral. Plus, he would need to find a proper dragon shaman of a new dragon type to spend a week with him to regain his powers.

[Greenish]

He is not much of a follower of Bahamut who protects the weak and encourages assistance as necessary. Further, gold dragons often offer order and wisdom to areas. While both are concerned strongly about Tiamat spawn, this is not the singular or primary purpose of either. Greedy is not something I would call any of the metallic dragons, least of all the gold dragons, nor is power-seeking, and proclaiming, without mechanical reason as a Cleric might, to be a worshiper of Bahamut only further confuses this.

If he acts in such a manner he will lose his good alignment quickly, and no dragon shaman can be true neutral. Plus, he would need to find a proper dragon shaman of a new dragon type to spend a week with him to regain his powers.

Well, by RAW, he has to select the totem dragon (to which he's within one step in alignment) in the first level. It doesn't say what happens if his alignment changes later.

[Vangor]

Well, by RAW, he has to select the totem dragon (to which he's within one step in alignment) in the first level. It doesn't say what happens if his alignment changes later.

Actually, there is a large "Ex-Dragon Shamans" section at the bottom of page 18 which says if you become an alignment not covered by your dragon you lose every feature gained by the dragon shaman class. You then must choose a new dragon totem and find a dragon shaman of the type who uses the entirety of his touch of vitality daily for an entire week, usually at the cost of a quest or similar.

[ashmanonar]

Actually, there is a large "Ex-Dragon Shamans" section at the bottom of page 18 which says if you become an alignment not covered by your dragon you lose every feature gained by the dragon shaman class. You then must choose a new dragon totem and find a dragon shaman of the type who uses the entirety of his touch of vitality daily for an entire week, usually at the cost of a quest or similar.

Which cost, given the relative unpower of the Dragon Shaman, is ridiculous and really only matters for fluff. This certainly doesn't sound like he's betraying his kind; they didn't bite on a quest hook. That's all.

Seriously; Dragon Shaman are weak as it is. There's no reason to arbitrarily remove their powers for such a silly reason (I'm not even going to call it an infraction, as he didn't do anything wrong.) He helped defend the people of the town, with no promise of reward: that fits the NG alignment to a T.

[Greenish]

Actually, there is a large "Ex-Dragon Shamans" section at the bottom of page 18

Right you are. I managed to miss it since it was hidden after starting packages and other miscellaneous stuff.

[Critical]

Seriously; Dragon Shaman are weak as it is. There's no reason to arbitrarily remove their powers for such a silly reason (I'm not even going to call it an infraction, as he didn't do anything wrong.) He helped defend the people of the town, with no promise of reward: that fits the NG alignment to a T.

...After getting another beer and complaining about why is it that dragon, not the other one?..

[Greenish]

...After getting another beer and complaining about why is it that dragon, not the other one?..

It's the actions that count, luckily.

[Amphetryon]

...After getting another beer and complaining about why is it that dragon, not the other one?..

Actions speaking louder than words, and all that.

[Vangor]

Seriously; Dragon Shaman are weak as it is. There's no reason to arbitrarily remove their powers for such a silly reason (I'm not even going to call it an infraction, as he didn't do anything wrong.) He helped defend the people of the town, with no promise of reward: that fits the NG alignment to a T.

True, which is why I never mentioned his actions but the way the player described his character as being greedy, power-seeking, and thieving. Not saying he should lose all of his powers for about any reason, but a person creating traits really should take a moment to think about alignment.

[Urpriest]

Though according to Draconomicon, even the good dragons are greedy. Still, unless his intent is to play a "jerk with a heart of gold", he's not understanding the alignment system properly.

[KillianHawkeye]

ALL dragons are greedy! It's practically their singlemost defining characteristic! They're basically elemental incarnations of greed... mixed with other elements... and scales. Don't forget that even good dragons hoard treasure.

[ZeroNumerous]

True, which is why I never mentioned his actions but the way the player described his character as being greedy, power-seeking, and thieving.

According to the Draconomicon: All dragons, even metallics, sleep on piles of coins and gems. All dragons, even metallics, have to get those gems and coins from mortals either by trade, diplomacy, or force. All dragons, even metallics, are interested in growing more powerful.

Thieving is fairly Chaotic, admittedly.

Being greedy and power-hungry doesn't make you non-Good.

Being greedy and power-hungry and using neither your wealth nor your power to help the weak does make you non-Good.

[jiriku]

Your player sounds the like traditional casual player. He's doing fine. You're doing fine too, if the group is happy. Let him continue as he's doing, and also let him encounter one of the good-aligned dragons, since he's clearly very interested in meeting one.

One word of warning, however. If you're thinking at the end of a session "I had expected the players to do X, and they didn't, and now my plans are ruined," you're either scripting your adventures too tightly (the players can easily wander outside of your narrowly planned rails) or you're not scripting them tightly enough (your rails lack in-game mechanisms for keeping the players on track, such as a time limit, a travel constraint, or an NPC in charge giving instructions). You want to either widen your rails so that the plot can accomodate a wider range of player decisions, or you want to give stronger in-game guidance so the players can tell what they're "supposed to do".

In your current game, wider rails would have consisted of interesting things to see and do on the mainland in the event that the players decided to go there, or a ready-to-go series of travel encounters designed to keep them busy for a session or two once they left the island (to give you time to develop content for the mainland.

Stronger plot guidance would have taken the form of an inability to leave the island (the dragon ruined all the boats and it will take weeks to repair them, or the dragon brought an unseasonal blizzard that has ice-locked the harbor). Alternate, it could be an NPC approaching them and saying "We saw the dragon flee to location x with the mayor's daughter in his claws. Please go kill it and rescue her and we'll give you a reward."

[Vangor]

According to the Draconomicon: All dragons, even metallics, sleep on piles of coins and gems. All dragons, even metallics, have to get those gems and coins from mortals either by trade, diplomacy, or force. All dragons, even metallics, are interested in growing more powerful.

Possessing, maintaining, or gaining wealth is not the same as greed. Interest in growing more powerful (what defines power is rather obvious in D&D, less in the real world) is the default for most of us. When you define your character as "greedy" and "power-seeking", those are defining characteristics and are beyond the norm of simply desiring wealth and strength. Plus, when one says, "Bahamut doesn't care what he does as long as he kills the spawn of Tiamat," this leads me to assume he plans to amass greed and power through means which would be frowned upon by a lawful good deity which does not actually possess such a dogma of nothing matters but slaughtering spawn of Tiamat.

Hence the mention.

[Amphetryon]

Possessing, maintaining, or gaining wealth is not the same as greed. Interest in growing more powerful (what defines power is rather obvious in D&D, less in the real world) is the default for most of us. When you define your character as "greedy" and "power-seeking", those are defining characteristics and are beyond the norm of simply desiring wealth and strength. Plus, when one says, "Bahamut doesn't care what he does as long as he kills the spawn of Tiamat," this leads me to assume he plans to amass greed and power through means which would be frowned upon by a lawful good deity which does not actually possess such a dogma of nothing matters but slaughtering spawn of Tiamat.

Hence the mention.

Note that without a more complete context, the player might have intended it as comments to throw off eavesdroppers in a seedy bar, for example.

[Vangor]

Note that without a more complete context, the player might have intended it as comments to throw off eavesdroppers in a seedy bar, for example.

Could be true, I am only taking exactly the DMs own interpretation of the description and such. As presented, could be in danger of alignment shift, plenty of context and word choice leeway considering, as everyone has mentioned, dragons are by nature "greedy" and "power-seeking" no matter the alignment.

[Lans]

White dragons that can cast teleport(what I'm assuming the pcs interpreted the spell as) are hard to deal with. They can burrow which is hard to deal with.

PCs will often do things unexpected, wether from missing a detail in the description you give or somebody decides something on a whim and the rest go with it.

My friend had a adventure where our ally had us go to a house to clear out some demons in a cellar. There was a famiy living upstairs who had put up a reward for this service. We met with the family then went into the cellar to deal with the demons. In the fight our ally turned out to be a demon who sneaked attacked one of us. We defeated the demons and one of us decided that we didn't need to get a reward for what we did, and it would be wrong for us to go through the chest in the corner. So we left and got back on the main quest.

Later, later the campaign was finished, I was talking to my DM on this, and it turned out that the family above was also demons who were planning on ambushing us when we came to collect our reward. And the chest we didn't open contained a passage way to another area with more demons who were in the process of torturing our ally, who we were supposed to rescue.

[Lans]

Could be true, I am only taking exactly the DMs own interpretation of the description and such. As presented, could be in danger of alignment shift, plenty of context and word choice leeway considering, as everyone has mentioned, dragons are by nature "greedy" and "power-seeking" no matter the alignment.

I don't think it will really be an alignment shift, as nothing is shifting from what I can tell. It would be more he was never his alignment to begin with and he might just need retooling.