Question about differances in PhB in 3.0 and 3.5

[Nick_mi]

So I have a group of players who don't want to bother with online books, and are cheap and do not wish to buy any more books. So basically what it comes down to is, I have the 3.0 playershandbook, monster manual, etc.

What are the MAIN differances between 3.0 and 3.5 do I need to be aware of, so I can catch them right away.

[Gavinfoxx]

Mostly the classes and weapons and skills. Go browse around www.d20srd.org for those areas.

[Halaster]

First thing is that several of the classes have changed, so you should print out their SRD entries. Also, the weapons table is different, with small and medium versions of weapons. There are some minor changes to the action system, I believe (no more partial actions).

There's probably more, but that's what I can think of right now.

EDIT: Oh, and there's way more core feats now.

[Nick_mi]

Forgot that I had players handbook 2. So I am going to let them use that. Is that missing anything super relevant? I figure I can use both, and the fact that I have Playershandbook 1 on my computer to look at in between sessions to make sure everything transitions smoothly.

[Halaster]

{{scrubbed}}

[Nick_mi]

Thanks for making assumptions on things you don't know. =/

[Dracons]

It's a pretty reasonable assumption that you have basically no equiptment, save for a 3.0 players handbook and 3.0 monster manueal, a 3.5 PHB 2, and more books on the computer, that was very likely downloaded illegally. (not that no-one does that). It's a bit shameful really. I'm sure money is very tight for you, and you cannot afford it, but that's like it for alot of gamers.

Point is, your not a true gamer until you've gone broke from buying lots of equiptment for a month or two, be it from books, dice, paper and/or minatures.

[Tehnar]

This might help.

Though as Gavin pointed out the SRD will likely be of greater help. It contains almost all the information you can find in the PHB/DMG/MM.

Main changes are to the classes, cover rules (simplified) and spells (many somewhat changed spells, most notable being haste).

[ericgrau]

This has the differences in a handle printable free PDF booklet:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

EDIT: Curse you lizard ninja.

[FMArthur]

Forgot that I had players handbook 2. So I am going to let them use that. Is that missing anything super relevant? I figure I can use both, and the fact that I have Playershandbook 1 on my computer to look at in between sessions to make sure everything transitions smoothly.

The Player's Handbook II contains no information that can substitute for the Player's Handbook. It is not useful in any way without the actual game, since all it does is add classes, feats, spells, and other small additions to the things you are assumed to already have.

[Ozreth]

Are you the DM? Tell them to download some damn PDF's and get over it.

Or find some PHB's at a used book store for around $10, those places usually have no idea how much these things are worth. I just picked up an extra one for $12 in mint condition.

There were obviously enough changes from 3.0 to 3.5 to constitute scrapping an entire line of books less than 3 years later and printing a whole new line. You will never catch all of the changes and you will never actually be playing 3.5.

[Arkhaios]

I have been playing 3e since about the time it came out. I have quite a few of the 3.0 books, including the 3.0 phb. I also have many 3.5 "splatbooks", and use them with the 3.0 phb. With a small application of common sense, many of the important changes become clear, and are typically solvable by simple house-rules. I have never had a problem with compatability among the core 3.0 and 3.5 "splatbooks" so long as one approaches the table with a willingness to tweak a few rules as needed. With a mature, cooperative group, you should have no problems playing and having fun, even if a few mechanical "problems" come up along the way.

Frankly, OP, if what it takes to be a true gamer is spending every penny you've ever earned on an endless supply of not-all-that-well-written splatbooks, miniatures you'll only use once, and more dice than you can carry, then I personally am glad that I am not one. However, if you want to enjoy roleplaying games as an exciting hobby bound by only the imagination, then you and I would get along well. Use your imagination and your intuition to make your own fun. Don't let someone telling you you're not a "gamer" stop you from having fun playing the game.

Tl;dr: You don't have to be a professional, with all the best equipment, to enjoy playing basketball. As long as you have a ball, you're set. Tabletop gaming works the same way.

P.s. a wastebin makes a great "hoop"

[Black Knight]

Quite a few spells changed levels and sometimes even classes from 3.0 to 3.5

[akma]

I heard the changes were pretty minor generally. I know the ranger and the monk were changed.

And I didn`t know that people counted being a gamer as spending lots of money on gaming books. Personelly, out of the few books I have, I only got a chance to use the PHB (which is of 3e and not 3.5e), so there won`t be much point in buying more books, becuse I won`t get a chance to use them.

[Dracons]

Never said spend every penny, or only buying games with your money. I said gone broke a month or two.

As in, if you had a choice between fancy dinner, or buying new books and having ramen for a month, you chose the books instead of the dinner.

A better wording is, your not a true gamer, until you have at least once, put the game before something that the typical person wouldn't do, such as go to a family member birthday you don't care about, or don't sleep for a night before school because your gaming and had to catch up.

Not making gaming run your life persay, but until the game has taken over a small part of your life that the /normal/ people look at you strange, until you've spent slightly more money on gaming supplies instead of essentals, your not a real gamer in the bibicial sense of the word.

[olelia]

A better wording is, your not a true gamer, until you have at least once, put the game before something that the typical person wouldn't do, such as go to a family member birthday you don't care about, or don't sleep for a night before school because your gaming and had to catch up.

Er...maybe I'm confused what a "true" gamer is...and a "zealous" gamer. I play d&d at least twice every week, own literally 3 shelves of different systems of books and attend numerous conventions...yet... I don't think I've EVER put gaming in front of my family life or school life. Yes...I've pulled long nights during weekends or summer vacation but never to the point where it would have an adverse on my schoolwork. I think your drawing some unfair conclusions on your definition of what a "true" gamer is.

[FMArthur]

And either way, being a "true gamer" or not shouldn't have anything to do with your ability to play a game and enjoy it. Just like my sister shouldn't be forbidden from playing Mariokart occasionally for not being a "hardcore gamer".

[Flickerdart]

The most important differences that aren't class-based are some changes to skills (Innuendo was folded into Bluff, for one), damage reduction (DR X/+X no longer exists, it's now DR X/damage type, X/magic, /alignment, /material or /epic) and creature types (Beasts are now either Animals or Magical Beasts).

[Dracons]

Er...maybe I'm confused what a "true" gamer is...and a "zealous" gamer. I play d&d at least twice every week, own literally 3 shelves of different systems of books and attend numerous conventions...yet... I don't think I've EVER put gaming in front of my family life or school life. Yes...I've pulled long nights during weekends or summer vacation but never to the point where it would have an adverse on my schoolwork. I think your drawing some unfair conclusions on your definition of what a "true" gamer is.

I guess I can't explain it. I never played it over school ether, however, there have been plenty of times where I've been UP for 48 hours, due to both playing straight through a night to race to work and or school afterwards. I was invited to my uncle party, the same uncle that would force me and his son to beat each other for his amusement, or he'd beat us worst, and I didn't show. (No-one did really).

I guess the best absoute best way I can explain it, is your not a gamer, if

A: You game once a year for twenty minutes.
B: Have never bought a single dice or gaming supply.
C: Haven't spent at least all nighter playing.

The going broke means that you spent more money on gaming, then other stuff that would require money, short of absoutes. For example, you buy the new book rather then say, buy the new car part you need and hold out til the next paycheck.


It's really difficult to explain. But I don't consider anyone that doesn't own a single gaming book legally, (Such as those that download illegal copies) or a bunch of dice, (That being at least two sets, which really just about 20 dice, ( 2d4, 8d6, 2D8, 2d10, 2d12, 2d20, 2d100) a real gamer.

[Kylarra]

Real gamers chip their own dice out of ivory that is from the mammoth that they brought down earlier that night for dinner. They also game solely on homemade paper made of the skins of their enemies and the ink is their blood of course.

[Zore]

I guess I can't explain it. I never played it over school ether, however, there have been plenty of times where I've been UP for 48 hours, due to both playing straight through a night to race to work and or school afterwards. I was invited to my uncle party, the same uncle that would force me and his son to beat each other for his amusement, or he'd beat us worst, and I didn't show. (No-one did really).

I guess the best absoute best way I can explain it, is your not a gamer, if

A: You game once a year for twenty minutes.
B: Have never bought a single dice or gaming supply.
C: Haven't spent at least all nighter playing.

The going broke means that you spent more money on gaming, then other stuff that would require money, short of absoutes. For example, you buy the new book rather then say, buy the new car part you need and hold out til the next paycheck.


It's really difficult to explain. But I don't consider anyone that doesn't own a single gaming book legally, (Such as those that download illegal copies) or a bunch of dice, (That being at least two sets, which really just about 20 dice, ( 2d4, 8d6, 2D8, 2d10, 2d12, 2d20, 2d100) a real gamer.

That seems... slightly ridiculous to be honest considering 'gamer' literally means "one who plays games". You're going into weird territory here, does it matter if other people consider themselves gamers if they haven't acted super obsessively about it? The behavior you describe and endorse is incredibly unhealthy and self destructive, staying up for forty-eight hours is usually not something to be proud of or recommend. Likewise a bizarre association of worth with the number of dice someone owns? And the earlier expectation that someone dump all their money into a hobby to the point of being considered 'weird'?

I can personally say I only fit one of your criterion in that I bought dice and books. I never impoverished myself, never stayed up two days in a row and don't have any d100s at all. Do I not count as a gamer? How about my uncle who introduced me to the hobby and has done it for twenty years without doing that? Is he no true Scotsman because he doesn't fit your rather arbitrary criteria?

I'm also baffled why the label of 'true gamer' appears to matter to you? Why can't I call myself a true gamer?

[Ozreth]

oops. disregard.

[Chambers]

I guess I can't explain it. I never played it over school ether, however, there have been plenty of times where I've been UP for 48 hours, due to both playing straight through a night to race to work and or school afterwards. I was invited to my uncle party, the same uncle that would force me and his son to beat each other for his amusement, or he'd beat us worst, and I didn't show. (No-one did really).

I guess the best absoute best way I can explain it, is your not a gamer, if

A: You game once a year for twenty minutes.
B: Have never bought a single dice or gaming supply.
C: Haven't spent at least all nighter playing.

The going broke means that you spent more money on gaming, then other stuff that would require money, short of absoutes. For example, you buy the new book rather then say, buy the new car part you need and hold out til the next paycheck.


It's really difficult to explain. But I don't consider anyone that doesn't own a single gaming book legally, (Such as those that download illegal copies) or a bunch of dice, (That being at least two sets, which really just about 20 dice, ( 2d4, 8d6, 2D8, 2d10, 2d12, 2d20, 2d100) a real gamer.

So someone isn't a gamer if they haven't gone through the same in group initiation rituals as you? I thought we geeks were supposed to be the accepting people, having gotten excluded out most of our life. That's the trope, right?

OP:

The links provided to the Wizards website should be all you need. Here are a few highlights.

• There are now Swift and Immediate actions. Immediate actions are swift actions that you can take when it's not your turn. Feather Fall is an example of an Immediate action.
• Haste no longer provides an extra Standard action.

[Halaster]

Whoa, I didn't want to kick of a whole debate on what makes real gamers.

So, to state my point a little more succinctly and less out of the passion of the moment:
If you want to play a game, you should try to come up with at least the necessities:
- one full set of books or printouts
- one full set of dice, to be shared around the table, if need be
- one stack of blank paper
- one pencil
- one character sheet for everyone

No one needs to ruin themselves financially, spend their nights up playing or planning or do other obsessive stuff to be a gamer. But I know how passionate and intense people can get, and I like that. By contrast, trying your damnedest to avoid spending a dime on your hobby, like the OP apparently does comes across as lacking the kind of emotional investment that makes me feel kinship to a fellow gamer. That's all I wanted to say.

[Ozreth]

Whoa, I didn't want to kick of a whole debate on what makes real gamers.

So, to state my point a little more succinctly and less out of the passion of the moment:
If you want to play a game, you should try to come up with at least the necessities:
- one full set of books or printouts
- one full set of dice, to be shared around the table, if need be
- one stack of blank paper
- one pencil
- one character sheet for everyone

No one needs to ruin themselves financially, spend their nights up playing or planning or do other obsessive stuff to be a gamer. But I know how passionate and intense people can get, and I like that. By contrast, trying your damnedest to avoid spending a dime on your hobby, like the OP apparently does comes across as lacking the kind of emotional investment that makes me feel kinship to a fellow gamer. That's all I wanted to say.

Well thats fair enough, and seconded : )

[Ozreth]

Real gamers chip their own dice out of ivory that is from the mammoth that they brought down earlier that night for dinner. They also game solely on homemade paper made of the skins of their enemies and the ink is their blood of course.

dibs on sig.

[ericgrau]

Ya I see his point. Your gaming group should at least pool some cash and get the player's handbook, and probably the DMG and monster manual as well. Though you might get away with the 3.0 DMG. I don't think you need to spend a fortune on books, but not getting the basics is taking it a bit too far. There is a point where cheapness just becomes dumb, and not even money saving. I mean all the hours you'll lose to confusion could be spent at Mcdonalds earning minimum wage to pay for several books.

[Curmudgeon]

Your gaming group should at least pool some cash and get the player's handbook, and probably the DMG and monster manual as well. Though you might get away with the 3.0 DMG.

There are some important differences in the 3.0 and 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide books, too. In 3.0 encounters automatically started at particular distances. In 3.5 encounters don't start until one side makes a successful Spot or Listen check, so a 3.0 scenario planned around a chance meeting of the PCs and some brigands in the forest just might not happen with 3.5 rules. (OK, there are a couple of holdovers from 3.0 rules for avalanches and forest fires: those still automatically become known to even the least perceptive characters.)

[Ozreth]

so a 3.0 scenario planned around a chance meeting of the PCs and some brigands in the forest just might not happen with 3.5 rules.

Hm, the former seems way cooler.

[Curmudgeon]

Hm, the former seems way cooler.

It's also rather unfair, because encounters automatically start when you're trying to sneak up on some enemies, despite you being stealthy and them not looking for trouble.