Animal Companions grow with HD? [3.5]

[SilverLeaf167]

When a druid's or ranger's animal companion gains extra HD, does it grow into a larger size category, in a way similar to the Advancement of normal monsters?

This is mostly important for a Halfling ranger NPC of mine, whom I want to ride on a Medium Eagle. According to the Monster Manual, the eagle grows from Small to Medium when it gets just a single more HD.

[Quirp]

As far as I know animal companions don´t grow, when they gain hit dice.

[Kaww]

I think they do. They are animals with enough HD to grow, so why not?

[Ernir]

I am Away from Book, but as far as I remember, there is a RAW difference between advancing an animal and "just" giving it bonus hit dice.

In either case, I houserule differently if asked. So yes, I have had my share of druids with Large Wolves.

[FuryOfMetal]

Animal companions don't advance in size with gaining HD by RAW, but I think that's not as cool as letting you ride an eagle . Just ask your DM and play to the Rule Of Cool.

[Yuki Akuma]

...No, they don't. Just like animals don't suddenly grow if they're Awakened and gain class levels.

The "advancement" section for animals is about more powerful specimens, not individuals getting more powerful!

[Adumbration]

There's a Dire Hawk AC in Races of the Wild that you can take, I think.

[Prime32]

No, animal companions don't grow due to HD that were added by your class feature.

You could just choose a Medium flying animal as your AC though. You could even say it's the same creature as your old one, after a growth spurt.

[bokodasu]

Oh, they don't? I see. Um.

Nobody tell my DM, ok?

[Kaww]

Oh, they don't? I see. Um.

Nobody tell my DM, ok?

Now there's a clever druid. Why not tell him/her? It's not that big of a deal even if your pet shrinks... It loses some stats and that is all. If your DM thinks like this it doesn't matter anyway.

[Drascin]

Now there's a clever druid. Why not tell him/her? It's not that big of a deal even if your pet shrinks... It loses some stats and that is all. If your DM thinks like this it doesn't matter anyway.

I figure she cares less about the stats and more about losing the mount. At least, that'd be what would sting the most for me about my Animal Companion shrinking.

[Kaww]

Druids need mounts?

Well only if she is lvl 4, later not so much. If that is the only problem she could spend 8gp on a mount.

[Zaydos]

Also by level 4 there are several medium or large animal companions that can act as mounts (Dire bats are good ones for this).

[Marnath]

Druids need mounts?

Well only if she is lvl 4, later not so much. If that is the only problem she could spend 8gp on a mount.

Why buy a horse when you can wild empathy it into wanting to come along?
For that matter, why not just turn into a horse?

[Kaww]

Why buy a horse when you can wild empathy it into wanting to come along?
For that matter, why not just turn into a horse?

You missed the first sentence, and the part about lvl 4? Haven't you?

[Thefurmonger]

I'm in the camp of "Spend 8gp on a mount" it always bugs me when people say things like "I hope my DM never finds out"

All that is doing is cheating, knowing a rule and not telling someone is as bad as "I hope my DM doesnt find out I palm dice"

just my .02$

[WarKitty]

Personally I'd just say tell the DM and say your animal companion grew anyways. It's not like that's broken really, aside from flying the eagle is a rather sub-optimal choice for a companion. If he says no, wait till level 4, hand him the Dire Bat stats, say you want that except with two d6 talon attacks and low-light instead of darkvision.

[bokodasu]

Yes of course I told my DM. But that's not funny. (Although neither is explaining the joke. Look what you made me do!)

Seriously, though, if you don't tell the DM, you just wind up fighting a Druid who's a pair of giant animals in the next session, and nobody wants that.

[WarKitty]

Yes of course I told my DM. But that's not funny. (Although neither is explaining the joke. Look what you made me do!

Seriously, though, if you don't tell the DM, you just wind up fighting a Druid who's a pair of giant animals in the next session, and nobody wants that.

Sowwy...joke no go over text?

[Marnath]

You missed the first sentence, and the part about lvl 4? Haven't you?

Yeah, maybe. I'm in a lot of pain here, so maybe the meds have me fuzzy

[Hague]

Erm... why not just release your current companion and replace it with an advanced version with greater hit dice and larger size? You're companion will have fewer druid class based abilities, though.

[Another_Poet]

I am Away from Book, but as far as I remember, there is a RAW difference between advancing an animal and "just" giving it bonus hit dice.

...No, they don't. Just like animals don't suddenly grow if they're Awakened and gain class levels.

I'd make a case for the opposite. The bonus HD grant all other HD-dependent factors for advancing the animal (skills, feats, BAB, base saves) so I think it would be logical to advance their size category at HD specified by the "Advancement" line of their entry, too.

It's not specifically called out however so I certainly agree that your interpretation is valid.

[bokodasu]

See, that's what I originally thought, but it wouldn't go to all the trouble of listing the things that do advance if there weren't things that didn't. I think release and refriend is the way to go here. (Even my DM, who's very core-only, would let me take a dire bat's stats and call it a giant eagle.)

Also, if it did increase size, there'd never be a reason to get one of the later compainions - stat out a large wolf with 3rd level bennies vs a plain black bear - no contest.

[hamishspence]

Races of the Wild has Medium Dire Hawks, Races of Stone has Large Dire Eagles- and for those that don't have either, maybe the DM can allow the player to start with an advanced creature.

In Champions of Valor, one of the PRCs gets an advanced Dire Hawk (Large) as a standard mount.

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, I'm the DM (as you could think from the part that the ranger's an NPC), so the houserule would be the easiest way out. I don't even think my players would really mind, especially as the NPC doesn't really do much.

If I, however, wanted to get him some advanced Animal Companion, where can I find the rules for those? Do they use the same rules as advanced Paladin mounts? She's only Ranger 8, so her effective level regarding the Companion is just 4. I'm not sure that's really enough for an animal large enough.

Also, I don't really think restatting a Dire Bat would be such a great idea, especially at such a low-mid level. A Large animal would take far too much attention away from the Small ranger (a Halfling, remember?).

[hamishspence]

Simplest would be to create "new monsters" which are actually simply advanced versions of existing monsters, and make ballpark estimates of what level companions they would be.

So you might have "Eagle" (Small) and "Harpagornis" (Medium)- and add "Harpagornis" to the list of available animal companions.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd make a case for the opposite. The bonus HD grant all other HD-dependent factors for advancing the animal (skills, feats, BAB, base saves) so I think it would be logical to advance their size category at HD specified by the "Advancement" line of their entry, too.

It's not specifically called out however so I certainly agree that your interpretation is valid.

Jesus Christ, seriously? Size increase is not a benefit of hit dice increase. At all. There is absolutely no reason to think an animal companion gets bigger unless you're misreading the "advancement" entry in the Monster Manual - which, unless it says "by class level", is specifically for more powerful individuals, not what happens when an individual gets more powerful.

Humans do not become seven feet tall through weight training - but some humans are seven feet tall.

[phlidwsn]

FWIW, the closest to official I've found is the FAQ with:

Q:When you add Hit Dice to a druid’s (or ranger’s) animal
companion as the master’s level goes up, does the animal
get any bigger? For instance, when a druid has a wolf
companion, the wolf starts out with the standard 2 Hit Dice
and is size Medium. By the time the druid is 3rd level, the
wolf has 2 bonus Hit Dice. According to the wolf entry in
the MM, an “advanced” wolf with 4 Hit Dice would be
Large. Is the example companion wolf also Large?

A:An animal companion doesn’t get bigger when it adds extra
Hit Dice for the master’s levels. The advancement entries for
creatures, and the rules for advancing monsters, refer to
unusually powerful specimens that are simply tougher (and
perhaps bigger) than normal for their kinds.

[hamishspence]

I see the advancement tables as also ways to create creatures that should exist, but the rules don't cover.

Such as Large porpoises (dolphins).

Oddly, I don't think even the advancement rules allowed Large crocodiles:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodile.htm

Here, crocodiles max out at 5 HD Medium, and the next available size is Huge (Giant Crocodile).

[SilverLeaf167]

Okay, I'll just simply use a bigger eagle. Problem solved, no?