The non-Asian Pugilist

[Cieyrin]

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The Pugilist by Schwanzerhund

Why? Because my DM doesn't like Oriental cultures for some reason I can't fathom and is a jerk like that (why he has a copy of 1E Oriental Adventures, then, I can't fathom, either...).

This means Monks are nixed, as are probably Unarmed Swordsages. Speaking ToB, I could see a Warblade Pugilist, practicing Diamond Mind and perhaps Stone Dragon, maybe?

Other considerations to make this workable: Superior Unarmed Strike is a must, since how else am I going to ramp up damage, unless I gish it up something fierce. Grappling is another thing to consider, as breaking people's spines across your leg is culturally universal. Going through the Improved Grapple line is probably worthwhile, though Earth's Embrace is kinda hit or miss. Other options are Reaping Mauler (looks promising, though I've heard some consider it a trap), Fist of the Forest (pretty awesome, if Beardfist Fistbeard is any indication) and feats like Scorpion's Grasp, Bear Fang, etc.

So, how does the Playground make a non-Asian Pugilist? Oh, and before I forget, my DM also considers Psionics Asian, so there goes the other half of the Tashalatora grappler. Beyond that, what does the Playground have to offer?

[9mm]

Fighter, oddly enough, can out unarmed damage a monk. There was a thread about it on Gleemax...

in the grappling department all you need is improved grapple and Choke Hold (Oriental Adventures). Reaping mauler is a complete trap, as all of its ablities except for 2 are about getting out of grapples... Black Blood Cultist (champs of ruin) however LOVES to grapple. Add in sharkstaff (i forget actual name, look up exotic weapons that are good) to get free grapple attempts.

Warblade would work, as would gishing it up. (hello WHALLOP!)

[KillianHawkeye]

How does psionics have an eastern theme??

EDIT: Also, put that pic in a spoiler tag. My screen can't take the stretching!

[Cieyrin]

How does psionics have an eastern theme??

EDIT: Also, put that pic in a spoiler tag. My screen can't take the stretching!

Le spoilered.

As for psionics being eastern, got me. Eberron's Sarlona, perhaps?

[KillianHawkeye]

Hmm... I don't know Eberron at all. Regardless, my screen thanks you!

[Saph]

Play a Warblade. Take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, and Improved Natural Attack if you can get away with it. Then take a bunch of Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw maneuvers (add Diamond Mind and White Raven to taste).

Since ToB maneuvers typically add a bunch of bonus damage dice, your base damage is much less important - the fact that your unarmed strike is only doing 1d6 damage instead of the 2d6 of a greatsword doesn't matter much when you're getting +4d6 from maneuvers like Bonecrusher. You'll be able to beat things to death with your fists quite easily.

[Cieyrin]

Hmm... I don't know Eberron at all. Regardless, my screen thanks you!

Well, check out the inside of Secrets of Sarlona:

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Particularly the Soulknife fighting the Inspired on the right side. That scene wouldn't be that out of place in any Kung Fu action flick.

[Knaight]

Go for unarmed swordsage, just turn the sheet in with the right character portrait:

[Cieyrin]

Go for unarmed swordsage, just turn the sheet in with the right character portrait:

As manly as Major Armstrong is, perhaps grabbing a picture from an anime, even a particularly European-esque one like Fullmetal Alchemist, is perhaps not the best of ideas. Plus, I don't think I could handle the purple sparkles.

[Snake-Aes]

Anything stopping you from showing him something like Boxing(greek)Capoeira(brasilian) or Krav Maga(israeli) and reminding him the books' fluff is the very first thing those books recommend you to change at will?

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If you feel particularly snarky after he refuses to do so (really, refusing so many classes and systems because "it feels asian" sounds immature enough he'll just block everything irrationally), you can leave the room screaming "OH MY GOD I NEVER KNEW PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE ASIA NEVER LEARNED TO FIGHT UNARMED!!!"

[Zeofar]

Particularly the Soulknife fighting the Inspired on the right side. That scene wouldn't be that out of place in any Kung Fu action flick.

"Out of place in" doesn't necessarily mean "directly inspired by" or "based upon." How do we know that wasn't a tumble check, or dodging of an attack an attack or a trip attempt? Argue with that guy! All night long!

On another note, if he is flexible DM, you could just come up with something along with him that is viable, has all the effects you want, and is justifiably non-Asian.

[Cieyrin]

Anything stopping you from showing him something like Boxing(greek)Capoeira(brasilian) or Krav Maga(israeli) and reminding him the books' fluff is the very first thing those books recommend you to change at will?

I think what I'll do is base the character off of Savate, which'll give me justification for pushing the martial art, especially with the attention it's been getting of late. Especially since it was developed with the influences of the English, Spanish and French.

As for Snap Kick, I'm not really seeing the appeal, as it's basically Flurry of Blows for a feat. Is it b/c I can put it on a full BAB character whose less MAD than a monk that makes it appealing? What about feats like Roundabout Kick and Flying Kick? Especially with a Tiger Claw initiate, I could see a lot of use out of either of those 2, with Blood on the Water and a goodly amount of charging. I realize the CW version of Flying Kick is weaksauce in comparison to the OA version but I can still see a little justification for seeking it.

[Flickerdart]

Warblade? Pah! Fighter? Pish posh!

Barbarian is what you want for caving in faces with your fists. Take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike), grab the rage variant what makes you enlarge (I think there is one, either that or some PrC) and run around knocking people's teeth out with your ridiculous strength and damage dice. Combine with Whirling Frenzy and Snap Kick for gratuitous amounts of attacks.

[DragoonWraith]

Flurry of Blows is bad because it hurts your attack on an already-lowish-BAB class in order to get an extra attack on a class without a source of bonus damage. Plus it requires Monk levels.

Snap Kick is awesome because it gets an extra attack for a feat, which means it can be combined with classes that can actually use it well. Like things with full BAB and/or sources of extra damage dice (e.g. a Rogue 20 gets an extra 1d6+Str+10d6+20 damage due to Snap Kick when Full Sneak Attacking).

[Greenish]

As for Snap Kick, I'm not really seeing the appeal, as it's basically Flurry of Blows for a feat. Is it b/c I can put it on a full BAB character whose less MAD than a monk that makes it appealing?

An extra attack every time you attack. Not just an extra one on full attack, but also on AoO and every other bonus attack you make (imp. trip & knockback, for example, would net 4 attacks).

Barbarian is what you want for caving in faces with your fists. Take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike), grab the rage variant what makes you enlarge (I think there is one, either that or some PrC) and run around knocking people's teeth out with your ridiculous strength and damage dice.

Mountain Rage, Goliath ACF, gives you Large size while raging.

I'd go with Fist of the Forest and/or Frostrager to round it up.

[BRC]

I homebrewed a class for this very purpose, the Brawler (See my sig). If the DM approves it it should serve you nicely.

[Cieyrin]

Warblade? Pah! Fighter? Pish posh!

Barbarian is what you want for caving in faces with your fists. Take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike), grab the rage variant what makes you enlarge (I think there is one, either that or some PrC) and run around knocking people's teeth out with your ridiculous strength and damage dice. Combine with Whirling Frenzy and Snap Kick for gratuitous amounts of attacks.

Mountain Rage, Goliath ACF, gives you Large size while raging.

I'd go with Fist of the Forest and/or Frostrager to round it up.

I have been thinking of Eldariel's Barbarian guide and I could see pulling a Barbarian into the mix. I was seriously thinking something along the lines of Warblade 16/Barbarian 1/Fist of the Forest 3, with the Barb and Fist of the Forest in somewhere where I can come back into Warblade to take advantage of the increased IL.

As for Frost Rager, that's an interesting idea but Frostrage has weird wording when it comes to unarmed progression, as it doesn't take into account any other sources of damage increase you could have. It just says your damage is this, which may make it not play nice with Superior Unarmed Strike and Fist of the Forest. One-Two punch would seem to have similar wording to Snap Kick on the 'you get the extra whenever,' as long as it's an unarmed attack.

An extra attack every time you attack. Not just an extra one on full attack, but also on AoO and every other bonus attack you make (imp. trip & knockback, for example, would net 4 attacks).

Hmm, I can see what's nice about that. Hmm...

[TheThan]

I did a Pugilist prize fighter a while back. It’s a prestige class focused on unarmed strikes and generally knocking peoples’ faces in. I also made a Capoeira fighter prestige class which is more like a whirlwind attack focused character, its sort of like the dervish class form compete warrior. I could probably send them out if your interested.

[Cieyrin]

I did a Pugilist prize fighter a while back. It’s a prestige class focused on unarmed strikes and generally knocking peoples’ faces in. I also made a Capoeira fighter prestige class which is more like a whirlwind attack focused character, its sort of like the dervish class form compete warrior. I could probably send them out if your interested.

Hmm, I'd be interested in seeing those, yes.

[Gavinfoxx]

Google "Ringen" in the context of the grappling based martial arts. That's what Knights did... now just build a heavily armored Grappler.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you wish to be a non-asian unarmed combatant, there are some interesting suggestions:

1) Shards of Granite.

You're using ToB anyways, right? Well, Stone Power is good in it's own right (negate first 10 damage per round, effectively), but when you combine it with Shards of Granite, you completely and totally negate any and all DR. Including DR/Epic, Mr Tarrasque. So yes, you can pull a General Warfield and punch out Big T

2) Intimidating Rage + Never Outnumbered + Imperious Command.

This is your Battlefield Control side of your character. This is a complete shut-down of anything not immune to Fear effects. Because they're too busy pissing themselves to bother taking any actions. Yes, you are so awesome that your very presence causes Big T to loose bowel control. Your rage is so terrifying that even Great Wyrm Dragons cower in fear when witnessing your wrath.

3) Dip Psionic for Expansion + Improved Natural Attack

Because there is no such thing as rolling too many dice for damage. With the right build, you can get two size increases out of the same power.

And, of course...

Mountain Tombstone Strike. Because 2d6 Con damage every other round? Really fun to toss around.

[Psyx]

Isn't there a Pugilist Fighter variant from Dragon? anyone know the details?

[panaikhan]

I think a Barbarian / Druid could knock some serious heads together.
Raging Bear, anyone?

[Person_Man]

Additional options include:

Binder: Ronove vestige (available at 1st level) gives you Cold Iron and Magic unarmed attacks, Feather Fall, Fast Movement, and Monk unarmed strike and unarmed damage progression, which can in turn be buffed a variety of ways. Also gives you Mage Hand with a Str equal to your Binder level, which can be used as a Swift Action. Buy a sheet of adamantine, and every turn Mage Hand it in between you and any casters or ranged enemies. Without line of sight, they can't target you.


Totemist: Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld (which is a Soulborn soulmeld, so you'll have to burn a feat to get it or play a homebrew version, because RAW the class sucks) adds a 2 + (2 * essentia) bonus to all Strength checks, and when bound to your Hands chakra it grants improved unarmed strike and grants the same bonus to unarmed damage. Girillion Arms soulmeld grants you a 2 + (2 * essentia) bonus to Grapple and Climb checks. When bound to your Totem chakra, it gives you 4 claw attacks. He can also buff his natural weapons a dozen other ways, making him the prefered Grapple build for those who can't or don't want to go the Monk/Psychic Warrior route.

[Violet Octopus]

Perhaps he thinks psionics is Asian because of words like dorjes...

Anyway, if he's going to rule out several ToB disciplines because they're too Eastern in flavour, perhaps convince him to allow homebrewed ones as replacements?

Although, really, reflavouring should be sufficient. Weird DM.

[Androgeus]

I think a Barbarian / Druid could knock some serious heads together.
Raging Bear, anyone?

Bear warrior (CW), that's where the real bear fist paw fighting is

[Telonius]

I made a fake Monk build awhile back that uses Fighter to get most of the Monk stuff.

Morris the Mock Monk.

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Human Fighter, Strength-focused.
Feats:
1: Improved Unarmed Strike
1(Human): Stunning Fist
1(Fighter): Power Attack
2(Fighter): Improved Grapple
3: Deflect Arrows
4(Fighter): Improved Disarm
6: Combat Reflexes
6(Fighter): Improved Trip
8(Fighter): Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
9: Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
10(Fighter): Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
12: Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)

Morris will have exactly the same ability scores as a 20th-level Monk. Morris has all six of the monk's Bonus Feats, while the Monk can only have three of them. Fighter has 6 feats (4 fighter and 2 normal) left over between then and 20th level - the Monk only has 7 feats to begin with (8 if a human), so Morris can most likely take all of the same feats that the Monk does by level 20, minus one. He has an average of 20 more hit points than the monk by 20th level. He has a higher BAB, which means he can hit more often than an equivalent-level Monk. Morris Power Attacks for at least 3 every time; with his Weapon Specialization, this means he's hitting as hard as a 20th-level monk starting at 12th level. (Except his attack bonus is still 2 better than the monk). Morris can wear enchantable armor while fighting, which costs less than the Monk's Bracers; he has an AC almost equalling, if not exceeding, the Monk. He can use his enchanted Gauntlets without using a Feat to gain proficiency.

Monk, on the other hand, gets faster movement, a higher jump check, evasion, +2 vs enchantment, Slow Fall, immunity to diseases, ability to heal 2x monk level hp per day, immunity to poison, Dimension door 1/day, SR monk level + 10, Quivering Palm, no aging penalties, speaks with everything, etherealness (monk level) rounds per day, DR 10/magic, better Reflex and Will saves, one more feat than Morris, 2 more skill points per level (with a much better selection of class skills), and extra attacks from Flurry of Blows.

But several of the Monk's bonuses can be gained by magic items. The Fighter can afford these, since he's paying less for his armor. Ring of Feather Fall, Periapt of Health OR Periapt of Proof against Poison (can't have both on at once), widgets of Etherealness and Dimension Door 1/day.

So, Monk's advantages: Faster movement, a higher jump check, evasion, +2 vs enchantment, immunity to diseases OR poison, ability to heal 2x monk level hp per day, SR monk level + 10, Quivering Palm, no aging penalties, speaks with everything, DR 10/magic, better Reflex and Will saves, one more feat than Morris, 2 more skill points per level (with a much better selection of class skills), and extra attacks from Flurry of Blows.

It's not optimized by any means (it was more of an exercise to show how even something like Fighter can almost out-Monk the Monk using nothing but Core and no monster feats) but it might be a useful starting point for you.

[Snake-Aes]

Stunning fist requires bab 8.

[Telonius]

Huh, so it does. (Surprised nobody pointed that out when I first posted it ... three? ... years ago). Stick it in at 8th then, pick up something else useful in its place.

EDIT: Just to be completely clear, those Weapon Focus etc.'s can and should be removed for something else, if we're trying to optimize Fighter for unarmed combat. They were mainly there to show a greater potential for to-hit and damage, regardless of the Monk's actual feat choices. There are almost certainly other Fighter feats that would benefit him more, but the Monk probably wouldn't qualify and the original build was supposed to be as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as possible.

[dextercorvia]

How about Fist of the Forest? It gets higher base damage for unarmed strike and fast movement. It is definitely not Asian themed. Something like:

Wildshape Ranger1/Barbarian2/Fighter1/FotF3 grabbing the Spirit Lion Totem, Wolf Totem and Whirling Frenzy variants. Pick up Snap Kick later. Whirling Frenzy gives you mock Flurry that you can Pounce with. Snap Kick (as said) gets you an extra attack with each action involving an attack, which is even better than a Standard Action Flurry. Wildshape Ranger and FotF get fast movement which stack. FotF also gets you the DR Magic bypass on your unarmed attacks and Con to AC which is way better than Wis to AC.

Frostrager from Frostburn would be a reasonable follow up to that. It only requires one feat you wouldn't already take, and gets you extra cold damage on your unarmed strikes and rend.