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Thread: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
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2010-09-10, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
I was explaining the Dragonfire Inspiration bard to a friend, and he balked at the way Words of Creation works.
He says that because of D&D's multiplication rules, Words of Creation would only multiply the bardic music bonus from bard levels, and not the bonus Song of the Heart or Inspirational Boost.
Specific, unarguable quotes one way or the other on this, and preferably encompassing precisely when the weird "D&D multiplication" rule does and does not kick in would be appreciated.
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2010-09-10, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
Well going to page 32 of the Book of Exalted Deeds... I'm not sure if I can directly quote it.
It says it doubles the bonus, and then lists the new bonus by level in parenthesis.
So I don't really know myself.Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
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2010-09-10, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
"D&D multiplication" comes into play specifically when multiple multipliers are in effect. x2 and x2 = x3 instead of x4. This is a completely and totally separate issue from whether you add before multiplying.
I don't think there is any true RAW quote sufficiently explicit to unequivocally satisfy your friend on this issue. There is a quote from the official FAQ about applying modifiers in the order most beneficial to whoever they belong to that you might be able to use, but it's only the FAQ rather than errata or other RAW, and the specific question it's addressing in context is the interaction of resistance and vulnerability to energy damage.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2010-09-10, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
From BoED:
A bard who has the Words of Creation feat can use these powerful words
to enhance his bardic music ability as detailed below.
...
The Words of Creation doubles the effect of several bardic music abilities:
* Inspire courage: Double the morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear and the morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls.
...From Eberron Campaign Setting:
Song of the Heart
Benefit: When you use inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire heroics or inspire greatness, any bonus you grant is increased by +1.
D&D multiplication says that static values are added before multiplication. The weird multiplier rules only come into play in certain conditions if you're increasing your multiplier beyond x2. I can't quote those rules, though.
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2010-09-10, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
Well if we can quote the book directly, then let's give the whole quote.
Originally Posted by BoED
Also the D&D multiplying rules from page 304 of the PHB:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by PHBPeanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
Current Projects:
Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2
Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.
Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)
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2010-09-10, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: DFI bard and D&D math [3.5]
The bonuses listed in BoED are simply assuming the normal inspire courage progression without any enhancers - which is completely understandable, since the BoED was published before there WERE any other enhancers - MIC, SPC and ECS (the three sources that gave us Badge of Valor, Inspirational Boost, and Song of the Heart respectively) were all published well after BoED. Even the DMG2, which gets us the Hero's Vest (or whatever, +5 effective bard level item) came a lot later. So Words of Creation was the first bardic music enhancer, and thus stated the expected new bonus.
Of course, any sane GM would change the way Words works anyway, since doubling bonuses like that gets very silly and you can get ALL of those bonus enhancements very early on (you can have everything but the vest at level 3, giving you a possible +8 inspire courage).