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2010-09-11, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
Hi, I was wondering if the Noncombatant Flaw from UA / SRD affects Grapple checks, and if so, if anyone could explain how they figured that out? Thanks!
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2010-09-11, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Elemental Plane of Paper
- Gender
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
No. The flaw only mentions giving a -2 penalty to melee attack rolls, which grapple checks are not. It would affect the touch attack to initiate the grapple, but not the grapple checks themselves.
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2010-09-11, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
I would apply it to grapple checks, but per RAW, I'm not sure. It does say a grapple check is "like a melee attack roll", but ... yeah.
BEEP.
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2010-09-11, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Gender
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
I think by strict RAW it doesn't.
But by RAI it should.
Avatar by Dogmantra
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2010-09-11, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
Nocombatant is on all melee attack rolls. So, yes. Whether it applies to all grapple checks, I am not sure, but there are several melee attack rolls involved in starting a grapple.
Spoiler
Starting a Grapple
To start a grapple, you need to grab and hold your target. Starting a grapple requires a successful melee attack roll. If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses).
Step 1
Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target you are trying to grapple. If the attack of opportunity deals damage, the grapple attempt fails. (Certain monsters do not provoke attacks of opportunity when they attempt to grapple, nor do characters with the Improved Grapple feat.) If the attack of opportunity misses or fails to deal damage, proceed to Step 2.
Step 2
Grab. You make a melee touch attack to grab the target. If you fail to hit the target, the grapple attempt fails. If you succeed, proceed to Step 3.If You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.
Attack Your Opponent
You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.
You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.
As to whether grapple checks count as melee attack rolls...Grapple Checks
Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is:
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifierIf You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.
However there's that niggling detail of them being said to be "like a melee attack roll" rather than a special type of melee attack roll.
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2010-09-11, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?
Okay, the reason I wanted to know this is because a friend of mine have divided tasks in a two PC game -- my character and her companions for melee, the other character and her companions for ranged, and we both took flaws and character options to reinforce this role. I was wondering what an Artificer with low strength and this flaw could do to have *some* way of being able to do something in melee in an emergency case, in case my Druid, her summons, her battlefield control spells, her animal companion, her trained animals, and her commanded animals, can't prevent whatever it is from reaching the other character in melee...
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2010-09-11, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
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2010-09-11, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: Does the Noncombatant Flaw affect Grappling?