Blister Oil...holy cow!

[Dark_Juggernaut]

I was looking through various books for more goodies for my pathfinder Alchemist and I ran into this ridiculous item. It's from Races of Stone, here's the excerpt off my pdf;

1 Vial-15g-1/2 lb.-DC 25 Alchemy

Blister Oil: Blister Oil is a highly refined alchemical liquid that causes painful blisters upon contact. To use it, a thin coat must be applied to the surface, such as a sword hilt or door handle. One application covers roughly a 6-inch-by-6-inch square area. Once applied it remains effective for 2d4 hours. Each vial of blister oil contains 1d8 applications.
When the oil touches bare skin the victim must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid painful red blisters that spring up on the effected area of the skin, dealing 1d4 points of damage per application used. In addition, the victim suffers a -2 penalty on Dexterity based checks, including Reflex saves for 2d4 days. Magical healing applied to this damage removes the blisters and the penalty. Natural healing can remove this damage normally, but the penalty to Dexterity based checks remains until magical healing is applied or the 2d4 days elapse.

So from what I'm reading, you can slap a whole bunch of applications on a weapon, and for the next 2 hours minimum, it'll deal that many d4 damage on every hit.

My question is, is this a poison?

If it isn't a poison, you can use it on tons of monsters that are usually immune to it. It's effective for every strike of the duration, and there's no risk of getting it on yourself when you apply it as a non-poison user.

If it is a poison, it can be modified like one via Kingdoms of Kalamar rules. It can be crafted for cheaper. It can be applied as a swift action by a 6th lvl alchemist, and remain useful for multiple hits with the Sticky Poisons discovery...

How would you guys rule(in general) on this wickedly awesome stuff?

[Hirax]

I'd count it as a poison since it requires a fort save, and it wouldn't make sense to damage many monsters typically immune to poison, such as constructs.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Anything without skin is immune since there's no bare skin for it to contact.

[Hirax]

Right, but I'd still render flesh golems and zombies as immune, for instance.

[true_shinken]

It shouldn't work on anything wearing armor, as well.
Or clothes.

[BeholderSlayer]

I see no reason to call this a poison. Fortitude saves don't necessarily mean poison.

I'd just call it a chemical.

[Zaq]

I do love Blister Oil. And yeah, I'd say that it's a poison, but not a Poison.

[Ravens_cry]

It shouldn't work on anything wearing armor, as well.
Or clothes.

This is the part where the DM says, "Is your rogue wearing gloves?"

[Hirax]

I see no reason to call this a poison. Fortitude saves don't necessarily mean poison.

I'd just call it a chemical.

I disagree, because if it were a 'chemical' rather than 'poison' it should work like acid, and be successful upon hitting, with no fort save.

[true_shinken]

I disagree, because if it were a 'chemical' rather than 'poison' it should work like acid, and be successful upon hitting, with no fort save.

There are other chemicals that allow a Fortitude save to reduce damage/effect. Alchemist's frost springs to mind.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

According to the wording, the Dex penalties stack... the damage should be the least of your worries, getting immobilized by a half dozen of these things should be...

[Jack_Simth]

This is the part where the DM says, "Is your rogue wearing gloves?"

A very great many will be - Gloves of Dexterity, if nothing else. Plus, you know, half the free starting outfits have them.

[BeholderSlayer]

I disagree, because if it were a 'chemical' rather than 'poison' it should work like acid, and be successful upon hitting, with no fort save.

There are other chemicals, as noted above, that have fort saves that aren't poison.

[Urpriest]

Remember, most monsters that are immune to poison also have a blanket "immune to effects requiring a fort save that don't specifically work on objects" clause. I suppose it would be handy for demons and the like, though.

[lord_khaine]

According to the wording, the Dex penalties stack... the damage should be the least of your worries, getting immobilized by a half dozen of these things should be...

Its a penalty to dexterity based checks, not dex itself.

[Jastermereel]

It sounds pretty poorly described and I'm not sure It makes sense to be able to stack applications. If you wanted to cover a square foot, you could use 4 applications, but I don't think you could, say, apply 30 applications to the same 6"x6" area.

That, and what the other people said about bare flesh. It wouldn't work on many attacks and...while it doesn't say you can't use it on a weapon, it wouldn't seem practical on most weapons with the rules about how it contacts bare flesh.

[kyoryu]

I'm not sure that it would work on an attack at all. The examples presented in the description were scenarios that would require someone *gripping* or *holding* the item in order for it to work.

I mean, I guess you could make an attack at an absurd penalty to lightly wipe your weapon across someone's skin, but I don't see where an attack would necessarily be enough exposure for the blister oil to work.

[Alleine]

I'd let it work as stated as an alchemical item. Poisons tend to have their own section apart from alchemical items.

Not to mention if you start making up rules for how it can't work because you didn't touch someone's skin, contact diseases are suddenly worthless as soon as people pick up on the fact that all they need is a decent set of clothing to forever foil it. Never mind that presumably you'd be actually cutting into people at some point in a battle, what with swords doing slashing damage and all.

Seems like a needless nerf to a substance, especially when all it takes is a little magical healing to remove penalties.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Both slashing and piercing weapons would definitely apply this stuff on hit, they can't do damage without touching skin. Bludgeoning damage wouldn't be guaranteed though.

The text implies you can put as many doses as you want on the same area, and that it does that many sets of 1d4 damage. I don't see how the penalty would stack, since the "per application used" clause only appears with the damage.

I'm actually kindof hoping my DM rules it as poison or poison-like so i can modify it like one. This would make it the cheap as all get-out to modify. An Alchemist can dream.

[true_shinken]

Both slashing and piercing weapons would definitely apply this stuff on hit, they can't do damage without touching skin. Bludgeoning damage wouldn't be guaranteed though.

Slashing/piercing weapons burst and destroy the skin touched while doing damage. It doesn't really matter if your skin is blistered if it was also ripped off your body, does it?

[Koury]

Slashing/piercing weapons burst and destroy the skin touched while doing damage. It doesn't really matter if your skin is blistered if it was also ripped off your body, does it?

Yeah, its not like a wound is any worse if theres also painful blisters all over it, right?

...Right?

[Ravens_cry]

A very great many will be - Gloves of Dexterity, if nothing else. Plus, you know, half the free starting outfits have them.

True, my point was this is an item for DM's to screw with the rogue.Now, RAW it doesn't do anything, but given the fluff text, I wonder what would happen if I splashed it in someones eye.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

True, my point was this is an item for DM's to screw with the rogue.Now, RAW it doesn't do anything, but given the fluff text, I wonder what would happen if I splashed it in someones eye.

I'll tell you what would happen. Very bad things, that's what would happen.

So if one application covers a 6x6 Square Inch area, could that cover a dagger's standard foot long blade? Since it's nowhere near 6 inches wide.

Could an Alchemist's Swift Poisoning ability to apply a vial of poison as a swift action allow him to apply a vial of this as a swift action? Very curious.

[true_shinken]

Yeah, its not like a wound is any worse if theres also painful blisters all over it, right?

...Right?

"All over it"? The skin touched by the weapon is shreded. It's not a part of your body anymore.
This alchemical item works on skin. Sure, a sword can slice through skin and into your stomach, but the blisters only happen when it touches skin.

[Akal Saris]

As far as I'm concerned, it's an alchemical item that works like an injury poison. In other words, it's delivered by slashing/piercing weapons. Like a poison, I - and most sensible DMs - would rule that only a single application could apply to a weapon at any given time.

That said, I'm a fan of blister oil due to the extremely low cost and since it applies to a few things that poison doesn't, such as devils. It's certainly not game-breaking though.

[Koury]

"All over it"? The skin touched by the weapon is shreded. It's not a part of your body anymore.
This alchemical item works on skin. Sure, a sword can slice through skin and into your stomach, but the blisters only happen when it touches skin.

Have you ever accedentally cut youself? Ever been stabbed? Cuz I've have, on both counts.

My skin has never been shredded. Seperated, sure, but its still there. You can't be stabbed without the blade touching your skin. You become affected by the oil when it touches your skin. Oil on the blade? Oil touches your skin.

[true_shinken]

Have you ever accedentally cut youself? Ever been stabbed? Cuz I've have, on both counts.

My skin has never been shredded. Seperated, sure, but its still there. You can't be stabbed without the blade touching your skin. You become affected by the oil when it touches your skin. Oil on the blade? Oil touches your skin.

Have you ever been stabbed while wearing armor? Yeah, I thought not.

[Koury]

Have you ever been stabbed while wearing armor? Yeah, I thought not.

Right. Wearing armor makes the flesh shred when you get stabbed. How could I forget.

[Skorj]

Right. Wearing armor makes the flesh shred when you get stabbed. How could I forget.

Sure, but that's only true for Star Wars stormtrooper armor (how else do you think ewoks defeated them?).

As an alchemic applicaiton that adds a bit of damage to a weapon strike, it seems fine to me - like anything else, you can't stack applications in this case. Of course, lawful societies are likely to disapprove of walking around with poisoned weapons, but I'm sure you'll never forget to clean it off before returning to town.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Penalty to dex-related checks, eh?

Blister Oil + Grease = good times