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    Default [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    I was originally gonna make this a 10-level class, but I ran out of inspiration, so I condensed what I had into 5 levels. PEACH!



    Bladeturner

    HD: d8

    Entry Requirements:
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feats: Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes
    Special: Must have defeated an opponent of equal or greater CR using only a single-handed slashing or piercing weapon.


    Class Skills: (4+Int modifier per level) Climb, Craft, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Spot, Swim, Tumble

    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A Bladeturner gains proficiency with a single one-handed slashing or piercing weapon of any type.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Turn the Blade, Weapon of Choice

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Einhander, Martial Defence

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Turn the Blade (Attack of Opportunity)

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Opportunistic Assault, Improved Finesse

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Hand Swap, Turn the Blade (Return Attack)[/table]

    Class Features:

    Weapon of Choice: Each Bladeturner becomes attuned to one specific type of weapon, learning the intricacies of its use. At 1st level, you must choose a single type of one-handed slashing or piercing weapon. From this point onward, whenever you wield a weapon of that type it is counted as having an enhancement bonus of 1 more than it actually has. Additionally, your Bladeturner class features only function when you wield your Weapon of Choice and it is sized appropriately. If at any point you wield anything other than just this weapon, you lose all Bladeturner class features. This includes wielding an Animated shield.

    You may use your Weapon Finesse feat in conjunction with your Weapon of Choice, even if this would not normally be allowed.

    Turn the Blade (Ex): The signature move of any Bladeturner is the ability to deflect attacks back on their foes. As an immediate action, a Bladeturner of 1st level or greater can make an opposed attack roll against an opponent's attack. If they equal or beat their opponent's roll, the attack is considered a miss.

    At 3rd level, the opponent is subject to an attack of opportunity if this is successful.

    At 5th level, any attacks turned with this ability may instead be directed against the opponent that performed it. Resolve the attack normally, using the attack result rolled as part of the initial attack.

    Einhander: At 2nd level, you gain Einhander (PHBII) as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites for it.

    Martial Defence: Using your blade as armour encompasses the essence of a Bladeturner. Starting at 2nd level, you gain a shield bonus to AC equal to half your Base Attack Bonus.

    Opportunistic Assault: Taking advantage of split-second gaps is second nature to a Bladeturner, utilizing their opponents mistakes. Starting at 4th level, you gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls when making an attack of opportunity equal to your dexterity modifier.

    Improved Finesse: Most Bladeturners, lacking somewhat in strength, learn to use their agility and dexterity to devastating effect. Starting at 4th level, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier as a bonus to damage. This functions in all ways that Strength would. (1.5x for two-handed fighting, for example.)

    Hand Swap (Ex): Confusion and quick strikes are what a Bladeturner does best, and the Hand Swap is the best example of both. Starting at 5th level, you may swap hands mid-attack to confuse your enemies. This is a free action to activate and can only be triggered once per round. To use this ability you must have already successfully hit an opponent once and be about to hit them again. Your opponent is considered flat-footed for your next attack. Additionally, you gain an immediate attack of opportunity against that opponent. This does not grant others attacks of opportunity against that opponent though. Your opponent is considered flat-footed for the attack of opportunity as well.
    Last edited by Niezck; 2010-09-25 at 03:04 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Martial Defence is weird. It stacks with nothing else? There is no precedence of an ability working like this so more of an explanation is needed. Does it stack with Cat's Grace? What type of bonus is it?

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    I may have worded it badly, but I essentially intended it to be a generic armour bonus. So, while unarmoured, you gain a bonus to AC equal to your BAB.

    It's meant to represent a Bladeturner parrying and blocking rather than relying on armour to absorb blows.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Martial Defense does need some major work on the wording. Does it stack with Natural Armor? As is it means you'll be getting +7 over the standard best armor possible (or tied compared to +5 full-plate and +5 shield), and then can stack on other AC enhancing abilities that require no armor. Not too much stronger than Greater Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment's or an Abjurant Champion's Greater Luminous Armor, though, but without the down side that you light up like a torch.

    Unrivaled Agility ought to just be a dodge bonus.

    Turn the Blade is an always readied 2nd level Warblade maneuver, with a free chance at a souped up AoO, and to disarm or even eventually hit them with their own attack and as written turn the attack back on them.

    Really this class obsoletes other melee fairly completely as long as you optimize your attack rolls. Only melee that can get around it are notably higher level or outliers in that regard (Tarrasque). So if that was what you were aiming for it's good, if not you'll want to tone it down.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    Martial Defence: Using your blade as armour encompasses the essence of a Bladeturner. Starting at 2nd level, you gain an armour bonus to AC equal to your Base Attack Bonus. This does not stack with regular armour or any other forms of armour. This includes, but is not limited to, enhancement bonuses to armour, bracers of armour and spells that grant magical AC bonuses, such as Mage Armour.

    Unrivalled Agility: A Bladeturner is a master of the art of dodging, learning to evade attacks that would fell a lesser warrior. Starting at 3rd level, you gain a bonus to AC equal to your Dexterity modifier. This is in addition to the existing bonus equal to your Dexterity modifier. The bonus from Unrivalled Agility is added to Touch AC but not Flat-Footed AC.

    Improved Finesse: Most Bladeturners, lacking somewhat in strength, learn to use their agility and dexterity to devastating effect. Starting at 4th level, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier as a bonus to damage. This functions in all ways that Strength would. (1.5x for two-handed fighting, for example.)
    Start with 18 dex, take weapon finesse somewhere along the lines.

    A set of full plate is +8 AC with a dex cap of 1. With +5 enhancement bonus and at least 12 dex, it becomes +14 AC. This class would have +14 AC at level 6... At level 10 it would have 28 assuming absolutely no points were spent in dex or equipment boosted it. At level 20, with just +4 into dex from leveling and a +6 dex item (i.e. no tome) it would have +28 AC for a total of 38 before factoring in things like luck/deflection/natural armor/etc bonus's... that's better than +5 full plate with a +5 tower shield for a 3 level dip, 4 if you don't want to lose damage from using strength as a dump stat on your fighter type... it's even higher if you add in a tome or use a class with a bonus to dex.

    Even if they do manage to get past your massive AC, a melee fighter still has to bypass your immediate action attack roll to hit him with his own sword.
    Last edited by Tetrasodium; 2010-09-14 at 03:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Martial Defense does need some major work on the wording. Does it stack with Natural Armor? As is it means you'll be getting +7 over the standard best armor possible (or tied compared to +5 full-plate and +5 shield), and then can stack on other AC enhancing abilities that require no armor. Not too much stronger than Greater Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment's or an Abjurant Champion's Greater Luminous Armor, though, but without the down side that you light up like a torch.
    I'll fix the wording. And yeah, it allows NA aswell as any other type - deflection, dodge, etc.

    Unrivaled Agility ought to just be a dodge bonus.
    I'll probably get rid of it, but yeah dodge would've been more appropriate.

    Turn the Blade is an always readied 2nd level Warblade maneuver, with a free chance at a souped up AoO, and to disarm or even eventually hit them with their own attack and as written turn the attack back on them.
    How would you suggest I change it, while maintaining the deflecting attacks theme? I really love the idea of opposed attack rolls to deflect, so I'd like to incorporate that.

    Really this class obsoletes other melee fairly completely as long as you optimize your attack rolls. Only melee that can get around it are notably higher level or outliers in that regard (Tarrasque). So if that was what you were aiming for it's good, if not you'll want to tone it down.
    I'm more than happy to tone it down. Got any suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Start with 18 dex, take weapon finesse somewhere along the lines.

    A set of full plate is +8 AC with a dex cap of 1. With +5 enhancement bonus and at least 12 dex, it becomes +14 AC. This class would have +14 AC at level 6... At level 10 it would have 28 assuming absolutely no points were spent in dex or equipment boosted it. At level 20, with just +4 into dex from leveling and a +6 dex item (i.e. no tome) it would have +28 AC for a total of 38 before factoring in things like luck/deflection/natural armor/etc bonus's... that's better than +5 full plate with a +5 tower shield for a 3 level dip, 4 if you don't want to lose damage from using strength as a dump stat on your fighter type... it's even higher if you add in a tome or use a class with a bonus to dex.
    I get what you're saying about the AC, but generally at higher levels the best comparison isn't with a full plated melee character. In my experience of playing mid-high level, it's normally the unarmoured types that get the most AC, stacking multiple stats onto it from various sources. 38 AC at level 20 is pretty pitiful, really.

    But as I say, I see what you mean about the dex stacking, it's pretty damn awesome at low levels. I'll remove the dex-to-AC-again ability. Any suggestions as to what I could replace it with?
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    But as I say, I see what you mean about the dex stacking, it's pretty damn awesome at low levels. I'll remove the dex-to-AC-again ability. Any suggestions as to what I could replace it with?
    Perhaps something like the monk's wis to AC, or int, that makes it a little more MAD?
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    I get what you're saying about the AC, but generally at higher levels the best comparison isn't with a full plated melee character. In my experience of playing mid-high level, it's normally the unarmoured types that get the most AC, stacking multiple stats onto it from various sources. 38 AC at level 20 is pretty pitiful, really.

    But as I say, I see what you mean about the dex stacking, it's pretty damn awesome at low levels. I'll remove the dex-to-AC-again ability. Any suggestions as to what I could replace it with?
    While it's certainly true that 38 AC at 20 is pitiful, that's 38 AC naked before adding natural armor/deflection/luck/dodge bonus's. It also does not include the +2 extra that would come from starting with a class that has +2 dex (even higher if more than +2, longstride and shiftwing shifters get +4 dex with no level adjustment) or using a +4-+5 tome for another 4 points. You would have enough AC pre-epic that many epic level critters would have trouble hitting you.... and then still be able to hit them with their own attack a significant percentage of the time.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    I think an X-to-AC ability would be kinda pointless to have in palce of Dex-to-AC.

    Also, any ideas on how to tone down the opposed roll blocking?
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    You could make it half your BAB instead of all of it?
    (Also, it feels more like a shield bonus to me, rather than armour...)

    Also, Level 3 is lonely.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    I second reducing the bonus from BAB. Also note Tetrasodium's number is wrong assuming 18 Dex +4 from Level and +6 from item; that's a +9 Dex bonus, AC would have been 10 + BAB (20) + Dex (9) + Dex again (9); or 48 before other bonuses. Even now you can get it to where CR 21 dragons have trouble hitting you if you take into account other bonuses to AC.

    For the deflection. Make it just be deflection at 1st level, then upgrade it to granting an Attack of Opportunity (which if they have Improved Disarm can be used to disarm and if they don't then they shouldn't be disarming in the first place). Still leaves them as excellent warriors, but means that if they are ToB (or are against ToB) it's still the cost of it versus a boost and not necessarily better.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Updated the class. Thoughts?
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    Updated the class. Thoughts?
    Ah, now you have a better and more interesting version of the Duelist Class. Well done.

    Unfortunately, the only medium-sized weapon that benefits from Weapon Finesse is a piercing weapon, disallowing it.

    As written, you have 5-6 options for your Weapon of Choice. These include the throwing axe, handaxe, Kukri, Sickle, and Dagger. If you want to blow a feat, there is also the Kama.

    None of these really fit the picture or the likely intended concept.
    Last edited by BladeofOblivion; 2010-09-14 at 05:46 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    ... Was the sarcasm really necessary? I just updated it with the suggestions mentioned in the thread. I didn't look at the Duelist and go "Hmm, I'll change that slightly for funs!".

    EDIT: Now that's more helpful. I'll update Weapon of Choice with a line saying you can finesse your WoC.
    Last edited by Niezck; 2010-09-14 at 05:43 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    That wasn't sarcasm. I am sorry if I made it seem that way, but it is hard to tell on the internet.

    The DMG Duelist is awful. I like this much better.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Ah, then I apologise.

    Also, you don't need to blow a feat for a Kama, if you so wish. The class grants proficiency with a single 1H slashing weapon. So you can pick an exotic if you choose.

    My ideal Bladeturner would use a B Sword.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    No problem. Just out of Curiosity, what was your Idea for Hand Swap? Wait, don't tell me...

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Bladeturner (PEACH!)

    Well I kinda stole it from the Einhander feat, which has somethign very similar. Basically just throwing your sword across to your other hand mid-full attack to throw your opponents off balance.
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