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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Gentles,

    In today's news, the US has discontinued bayonet training . I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on the matter, and if this is the right place to ask that question.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    As field battles are a thing of the past, you'd get close enough to potentially use a bayonet only inside buildings. And US forces had lots of actual combat experience in such environments, so if they believe bayonets are useless, I think they have very good reasons to do so.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Anyway, my brother and I picked up a hardwood bokken earlier today. Anyone know of any katas I can practice? The initial results I found on the net were pure text and highly technical.
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    the US has discontinued bayonet training .
    Thanks for the link. Interesting.


    As field battles are a thing of the past, you'd get close enough to potentially use a bayonet only inside buildings. And US forces had lots of actual combat experience in such environments, so if they believe bayonets are useless, I think they have very good reasons to do so.
    With all due respect for the US Armed Forces; some other modern military organisations have had just as much, or arguably more actual combat experience in recent years, and haven't elected to drop it from training.

    One can roll out the usual comments that it's good aggression and confidence training. They're obvious. It does also teach infantry a someone greater respect for their own weapon system: Soldiers who wave firearms around in a frankly reckless manner suddenly stop doing it when it has a pointy bit on the end that they might take their own eye out with: It's a rather more immediate fear than that of the firearm discharging.

    As for being useless: The British Army have fixed bayonets for modern warfare on several occasions in the last 30 years, so it's clearly not a completely pointless martial exercise, either. Unless one considers the British Army green and inexperienced in the field of modern warfare?

    What actually disturbs me greatly is the fact that it's being shelved because there isn't time in the 10 week basic training for it. Fair enough: Other skills are more useful and should take priority... BUT:
    We aren't at actual war. We have no conscription. There is no need to rush training: Ten weeks isn't enough time to teach a grunt how to effectively fight anyway. Bayonet training hardly takes weeks. Just extend the training schedule. Why is the US Army rushing green troops out of Basic?
    Last edited by Psyx; 2010-09-29 at 11:23 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyx View Post
    With all due respect for the US Armed Forces; some other modern military organisations have had just as much, or arguably more actual combat experience in recent years, and haven't elected to drop it from training.

    One can roll out the usual comments that it's good aggression and confidence training. They're obvious. It does also teach infantry a someone greater respect for their own weapon system: Soldiers who wave firearms around in a frankly reckless manner suddenly stop doing it when it has a pointy bit on the end that they might take their own eye out with: It's a rather more immediate fear than that of the firearm discharging.

    As for being useless: The British Army have fixed bayonets for modern warfare on several occasions in the last 30 years, so it's clearly not a completely pointless martial exercise, either. Unless one considers the British Army green and inexperienced in the field of modern warfare?

    What actually disturbs me greatly is the fact that it's being shelved because there isn't time in the 10 week basic training for it. Fair enough: Other skills are more useful and should take priority... BUT:
    We aren't at actual war. We have no conscription. There is no need to rush training: Ten weeks isn't enough time to teach a grunt how to effectively fight anyway. Bayonet training hardly takes weeks. Just extend the training schedule. Why is the US Army rushing green troops out of Basic?
    Being in the Army, I can actually understand the dropping of bayonet training from BASIC training (if they moved it to advanced individual training). Most soldiers that aren't SF, Infantry, Military Police, or combat engineers will never use this training. Ever. I've been in 15 years, have been Artillery, and am now a specialized type of engineer, and have not once heard of anyone other than the four aforementioned fields using a bayonet for more than a can opener. Blah, blah, everyone is an Infantryman (or woman) first, sure, whatever. It's not true in the Army. It may fit well into the Marine Corps, but that mode of thought is outdated for the Army. (But they do make nifty can openers. )

    EDIT: Heh, I forgot why I came in here in the first place. Has anyone done any independant studies on renaissance firearms? Specifically ranges and chance of blowing up in your hands? I've been able to look at studies on Revolutionary War, Civil War, and American West period pieces, but renaissance-era stuff has somehow escaped me.
    Last edited by dsmiles; 2010-09-29 at 11:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Concerning Bayonets: I recall that British troops in Afghanistan have used bayonets on at least one occasion, and to great effect. So it seems odd that the United States Army has discontinued the practice, especially for the reason given. I would like to echo Psyx, why are they spending only ten weeks on training?

    Concerning Zombies: What would the likely effect of a 12 gauge shotgun firing deer slugs be on our garden variety 'shambler'? I've thought that it ought to do fairly considerable tissue damage, so even if I fail to "Remove the head or destroy the brain." with my first or second shot, the target will be reduced to a fairly-easily disposed of mass of crawling zombie.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    Concerning Zombies: What would the likely effect of a 12 gauge shotgun firing deer slugs be on our garden variety 'shambler'? I've thought that it ought to do fairly considerable tissue damage, so even if I fail to "Remove the head or destroy the brain." with my first or second shot, the target will be reduced to a fairly-easily disposed of mass of crawling zombie.
    I concur. They may not even be crawling at that point, but I'd still rather use 00 buck shot. More tissue damage = less crawling zombie to clean up later. You could experiment using a pig corpse and a shotgun, or alternatively, I think Mythbusters has already done this with ballistics gel and a shotgun.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    EDIT: Heh, I forgot why I came in here in the first place. Has anyone done any independant studies on renaissance firearms? Specifically ranges and chance of blowing up in your hands? I've been able to look at studies on Revolutionary War, Civil War, and American West period pieces, but renaissance-era stuff has somehow escaped me.
    I would be interested in seeing such statistics myself, but I have low hopes that they will be found. I don't think enough records were kept at that time to provide good statistics - primarily because of the nature of war and soldiering during the renaissance.

    Quality could vary considerably, and that would effect reliability, along with how experienced or well trained the soldiers were. Musket accuracy can be affected by how carefully they are loaded, and how good of a patch is used. If the patch is tight fitting, it will eliminate the bouncing effect that tv shows always point out. However, it will also take longer to load, which will become a greater problem as fowling builds up. On the other hand, renaissance musketeers probably fired their muskets fewer times in a given battle than their later counterparts. Also supply of patches and wadding could be irregular. I read somewhere that troops were known to stuff grass down their barrels to serve as wadding.

    That said, the ranges typically provided for Renaissance era muskets are pretty similar to what is given for later muskets. Accurate to about 50 yards against individual targets, and 100-150 for massed targets. This may simply be people applying knowledge of similar weapons from later periods. Snipers did exist, and are claimed to have picked people off at longer ranges than 50 yards. I suspect that the 50 yard claim is based on typical training and skill levels combined with weapon limitations, and not simply weapon limitation.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    Concerning Bayonets: I recall that British troops in Afghanistan have used bayonets on at least one occasion, and to great effect. So it seems odd that the United States Army has discontinued the practice, especially for the reason given. I would like to echo Psyx, why are they spending only ten weeks on training?
    Nearly anything will be useful at some point over 30 years. However, you can't possibly pack with you everything that might possibly be handy at some time.

    Bayonets are very seldomly used for their intended purpose. Knives are handy, but mostly as tools. So, you're much better off either using that weight, space, and training time for something more generally applicable. Also, it's worth noting that with a bayonet fixed, your accuracy frequently changes significantly. Definitely a major downside.

    Personally, being air force, we haven't had bayonet training in basic for ages. Well, at least, not went I went through it, it might have been added when they increased the length.

    And basic training is just that...the basics. Most people get quite a bit more training in their specific field. Years, in some cases. There is quite enough mostly pointless stuff in basic that'll never be used by anyone in the practical military. No need to add more.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    How much time do the armed forces waste marching around in formation? They don't do close order marching on the battlefield anymore . . . I bet that's next on the chopping block! ;-)

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    What stopped the Luftwaffe from destroying the Red Army when it was pushing into Germany?

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Bayonet training will still, I'm sure, be a part of Infantry training. Most people who go through Basic go into a specialty that isn't close combat, so spending a few days hacking up dummies might be better used learning how to avoid IEDs or deal with locals.

    I like the bayonet. It comes in handy up close, like house clearing, which we are doing a lot of in the current campaigns, and the training is good for building strength, agility and aggressiveness into your troops.

    Plus, halfway through your 12 weeks at Parris Island, you really want to stab and chop the @#$% out of something, and beat your fellow recruits with pugil sticks.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_G View Post
    Plus, halfway through your 12 weeks at Parris Island, you really want to stab and chop the @#$% out of something, and beat your fellow recruits with pugil sticks.
    Remember that it's the Army that's discontinued Bayonet training. I suspect the Marine Corps still trains its Marines in the activities of stabbing and chopping the @#$% out of things.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Britter View Post
    Do yourself a favor and see what is availible around you in terms of sword instruction. With traditional Japanese sword arts, you are not going to be able to learn anything authentic and effective over the internet or by video. A good place to start would be to look for a local kendo club or school. The kendo curiculum has a set of 7 katana used against katana and 3 wakizashi used against katana kata which are very good and entertaining kata to practice. They will also give you a good solid set of foundational sword skills.

    I can't speak towards instruction in Western Martial Arts, so I will leave that to experts in that field, but as regards Japanese Sword arts it is my opinion, formed by 13 years of training, that learning without a qualified instrutor is literaly impossible to do correctly.
    That's the answer I was dreading but expecting. I've little time left as is, but thanks anyway.


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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortinbras View Post
    What stopped the Luftwaffe from destroying the Red Army when it was pushing into Germany?
    Lots of factors, including spare parts shortages, fuel shortages, the Red Air Force, weather, and the fact that they did more good shooting at Anglo-American bombers than strafing tanks.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Re: Bayonets:

    It's not like bayonet training is being dropped entirely, it's just being dropped from basic, i.e. the universal training that every Army soldier has to go through. The fact is that bayonet training is useful in a specific set of predictable combat circumstances that are encountered somewhat often by soldiers in certain specialties and almost never by soldiers not in those specialties. Seems like the absolute definition of a skill that should be taught in the training for those specialties, not in basic.

    Re: Luftwaffe vs. Red Army:

    Where to even begin? Even at the height of its strength, the Luftwaffe wasn't able to destroy the Red Army (though it came pretty close in the opening days after Barbarossa kicked off). By the time the tide turned in the East, the Luftwaffe was plagued by fuel and spare part shortages and was mostly devoted to defending German cities from the RAF Bomber Command and US 8th Air Force. Even if the Luftwaffe had decided to give the Allied bombers a free hand over German skies, it'd not clear that they could have defeated the Soviet Air Force decisively enough to give them a free hand over the battlefield, after all, the Soviets were majorly outproducing the Nazis in basically every area of war materiel, including planes, by the end of the war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortinbras View Post
    What stopped the Luftwaffe from destroying the Red Army when it was pushing into Germany?
    There wasn't any Luftwaffe left! By D-Day the Allied had air superiority.
    It's simply impossible to launch effective airstrikes if your aircraft get shot down 10 minutes after take-off. And remember that by this point in the war, allied fighter cover easily extended over the whole of Germany.

    Allied strategic bombing trashed the industrial capabilities of the nation, and a lot of airpower was allocated to air defence. Allied air forces were doing their best to destroy any remaining aircraft the Germans had, to the extent that a vast number of them were destroyed on the ground by roving interdiction missions, striking at air bases. There were few [German] planes left capable of such missions [Air support].

    The Luftwaffe was a hollow shell of its former glory, with ground crews being handed rifles and assigned last-ditch infantry tasks.
    Last edited by Psyx; 2010-09-30 at 05:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    Concerning Zombies: What would the likely effect of a 12 gauge shotgun firing deer slugs be on our garden variety 'shambler'? I've thought that it ought to do fairly considerable tissue damage, so even if I fail to "Remove the head or destroy the brain." with my first or second shot, the target will be reduced to a fairly-easily disposed of mass of crawling zombie.
    A hole! A big hole, but still a hole. Sadly, it won't remove the head, but might blow a nice big chunk of skull off the back, if you're lucky.
    I'd imagine that if our zombie was a little decomposed then it might be more effective, but I don't really know how well rotting meat handles ballistic tests!

    00 buckshot at close range results in a 'rat hole' wound: a hole that looks like it's been chewed by rats. The shot simply doesn't have enough range to spread, causing pretty similar effects to a heavy single slug, with the wound diameter dependant on range.

    It's back to the 'bullets aren't designed to blow heads off' thing again, really.

    It kind of depends how the zombies are 'controlled'. If they still 'need' their brain, then even a pistol round to the brain stem will shut them down straight away.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Nearly anything will be useful at some point over 30 years. However, you can't possibly pack with you everything that might possibly be handy at some time.
    A knife is always handy. Even if it's not for stabbing people with.

    There is quite enough mostly pointless stuff in basic that'll never be used by anyone in the practical military. No need to add more.
    I'd rather ditch 'what to do if a nuclear warhead goes off near you' classes instead. Because those are really useless in comparison. Never mind pointing my head away from the blast... just tell 'em to tuck it between their legs and pucker up.

    For me it's just a poor reflection of standards. Not got 'time' to fit in all the stuff a modern soldier needs to know? Extend training. Simple as. Be the best.

    Modern warfare is fought in newspapers. Once a nation's People see enough body bags, they've had enough, regardless of the actual state of the campaign. It's happened time and time again. So the goal of warfare for the US must always be to heavily prioritise anything that reduces their own bodycount. If that means an extra 2 days MIGHT remotely save someone's skin, it's really worthwhile.

    And we all know that being able to use a bayonet really isn't what the training is about, anyway. Aggression during FIBUA and lack of 'squeamishness' is really quite important in our current campaigns.



    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    How much time do the armed forces waste marching around in formation? They don't do close order marching on the battlefield anymore . . . I bet that's next on the chopping block! ;-)
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    you yanks are taught to face away form the blast?

    the brit drill is to lie down, helmet towards the blast, letting it take the shock wave, and stick your hands on your balls to keep them out of the way.

    though, I must note that my nucular training conisted of a grand total of two hours of lectures. most of my CBRN training was focused on chemical drills, which makes sense as a lot more of our oppenents have chemical weapons (saddam hussien, for example. we know he had them pior to the 1st gulf war, becuase he used them on the kurds and agianst the iranians), plus it has some theoretical useage outside of battle (dealing with chemical spills mainly)

    The birtish army spends 14 weeks on basic training, and exactly one afternoon on bayonet training. I am sure the infantry go though more in their phase 2 training (along with how to use any firearm other than a L85)

    How much time do the armed forces waste marching around in formation? They don't do close order marching on the battlefield anymore . . . I bet that's next on the chopping block! ;-)
    pah. you americans think you have that bad?

    the drill instructors coruse in the birtish army is still one of the most promotion-freindly courses you can do. I am fairly sure i spent more time on the drill square in basic than i did on the rifle range.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Bringer View Post
    you yanks are taught to face away form the blast?
    No; I'm English. It was just a very, very long while ago, and I found it hard to pay attention to any lecture that started 'when you see a nuclear weapon go off nearby...'

    It was complete garbage. Stabbing a sandbag for an hour would have been far more useful.


    and don't get me started on the Guards...
    I've never understood how they stay so shiny.


    Are Forward Assists on the IW loading drill in or out this year? They always seemed to be changing their mind about it...
    Last edited by Psyx; 2010-09-30 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyx View Post
    No; I'm English. It was just a very, very long while ago, and I found it hard to pay attention to any lecture that started 'when you see a nuclear weapon go off nearby...'

    It was complete garbage. Stabbing a sandbag for an hour would have been far more useful.
    cool. what unit where you part of?

    I've never understood how they stay so shiny.
    according to my Coldstream guards corporal in basic, by literally spending an hour on them every single night for a month or two. theier is also this trick with beeswax and sand that they use to harden the leather and help it keep the polish.


    Are Forward Assists on the IW loading drill in or out this year? They always seemed to be changing their mind about it...
    as i've been taught we don't chamber a round on the command "load", but do it on the command "ready", instead. But to answer the question, its foreward assist pretty much every time the bolt comes foreard, be it NSPs, reloading, unloading, reloading, clearing stoppages, etc.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
    But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyx
    Are Forward Assists on the IW loading drill in or out this year? They always seemed to be changing their mind about it...
    In, Out, in Out, Forward assist, and check your change leaver, that's what it's all about.

    We (I'm MSUOTC, so as close to being a civvie without actually being one), were taught to always forward assist every time, in every circumstance. If anyone ever called us on it, to say we were unsure if the working parts were full forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyx
    I've never understood how they stay so shiny.
    They get their **** to do it old boy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer
    I am fairly sure i spent more time on the drill square in basic than i did on the rifle range.
    I'm very sure I have. It's odd, how intially you hate it and hate doing it, but as soon as you get a parade, you start looking down on all the other units (particularly the Naval and Airforce reserve's), who can't march. Which is why it's done, it builds esprie d-corp. Or however it's spelt.

    And thats the major reason to include bayonet training, It builds aggression, and fighting spirit.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by firechicago View Post
    Re: Luftwaffe vs. Red Army:

    Where to even begin? Even at the height of its strength, the Luftwaffe wasn't able to destroy the Red Army (though it came pretty close in the opening days after Barbarossa kicked off). By the time the tide turned in the East, the Luftwaffe was plagued by fuel and spare part shortages and was mostly devoted to defending German cities from the RAF Bomber Command and US 8th Air Force. Even if the Luftwaffe had decided to give the Allied bombers a free hand over German skies, it'd not clear that they could have defeated the Soviet Air Force decisively enough to give them a free hand over the battlefield, after all, the Soviets were majorly outproducing the Nazis in basically every area of war materiel, including planes, by the end of the war.
    Correction, they were fielding more in every area of war material. Without lend-lease, the red army would have utterly lost the war in the air, and this would have arguably put their entire war effort at risk. Lend-lease was ridiculously huge in specialist things, like aviation supplies. I don't recall the details, but for some things, the US was providing 80%+ of the supply used. Supply moving stuff, like railway machinery, was even more drastic.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    I would be interested in seeing such statistics myself, but I have low hopes that they will be found. I don't think enough records were kept at that time to provide good statistics - primarily because of the nature of war and soldiering during the renaissance.

    Quality could vary considerably, and that would effect reliability, along with how experienced or well trained the soldiers were. Musket accuracy can be affected by how carefully they are loaded, and how good of a patch is used. If the patch is tight fitting, it will eliminate the bouncing effect that tv shows always point out. However, it will also take longer to load, which will become a greater problem as fowling builds up. On the other hand, renaissance musketeers probably fired their muskets fewer times in a given battle than their later counterparts. Also supply of patches and wadding could be irregular. I read somewhere that troops were known to stuff grass down their barrels to serve as wadding.

    That said, the ranges typically provided for Renaissance era muskets are pretty similar to what is given for later muskets. Accurate to about 50 yards against individual targets, and 100-150 for massed targets. This may simply be people applying knowledge of similar weapons from later periods. Snipers did exist, and are claimed to have picked people off at longer ranges than 50 yards. I suspect that the 50 yard claim is based on typical training and skill levels combined with weapon limitations, and not simply weapon limitation.
    I was looking more toward hard numbers. With an average wadding and patch, and a taget as big as a barn, at what distance does a renaissance-era long-gun stop blowing a hole in the target? A hand-cannon? I wish Gunney Ermey would cover more renaissance-era firearms... He covered the blunderbus, though, and that made my day. Ah, medieval shotguns...those were the days...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    How much time do the armed forces waste marching around in formation? They don't do close order marching on the battlefield anymore . . . I bet that's next on the chopping block! ;-)
    The way I understand it, the marching exercises are purely disciplinary in nature.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    I don't think that naginata compares at all, it's more like shortish, slightly more "personal" glaive with slender but longish blade in all serious example I've seen.

    Halberd in classic form is solid axe/cleaver with long spike and hook... outright different handling and qualities.

    Arma video is obviously solid, and anything with pollexe will be good.

    Polleaxes were generally shorter and generally different, but they give good comparison.

    Here polleaxes start around 1 : 20 for example.
    Gladiatoria does great videos I didn't know they had a new one out, thanks for posting...

    G.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    Some random trivia:

    Venice's Arsenal, eventually became a kind of early form of a production line. In the 16th century it was claimed that they could crank out a complete galley in a day! The parts were standardized, and they kept forms of all the pieces, and would keep many spare pieces in stock (it also aided in repairs). Other nations did copy the Arsenal system, to a lesser or greater degree.

    The University of Bologna:

    I think this University was a "student-run" university. Professors that were late to class could be beaten by the head-student, and faced various fines/penalties for different infractions! If memory serves me correctly, Bologna specialized in Law.

    At some point it was listed as a "Studium Generale" which means it was recognized by the Holy Roman Empire. This was the classification that most early universities sought. The university was not a physical place at this time. It was a collection of students and teachers, who typically rented rooms. This gave them mobility, and the ability to threaten to leave cities that didn't meet certain demands.
    Good stuff! Yeah the Arsenal was impressive. I wasn't aware of the details about the Studio

    G.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Thanks for the link. I am kinda disappointed that this is the best material I've seen so far on axe fighting, but it's far better than my terrible attempts at figuring it out for mock battles. Thanks!
    Well there is also this 15th Century manual, but as previously stated, it deals with poll-axes... which are axes, just on a really long haft.

    G.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Bringer View Post
    CBRN training ..
    If C is Chemical, B is Biological and N is Nuclear, the what does the R in CBRN stand for?
    LGBTA+itP

    Neat-looking avatar by Ninja Chocobo.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Correction, they were fielding more in every area of war material. Without lend-lease...
    Although it's not fair to pretend that anyone except the Soviet Union won the war against Germany. The rest of the Allies helped a bit, I guess...



    cool. what unit where you part of?
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159783

    I had a CR of 4, apparently.




    In, Out, in Out, Forward assist, and check your change leaver, that's what it's all about.
    At least they fixed them and they mostly work now.


    In other news, I'm taking a trip down memory lane by buying myself an old Landrover tomorrow.

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