(3.5 D&D) Mage Armor and the Incorporeal

[Soviet Onion]

In one of the campaigns I am playing, my wizard character has struck up a friendly relationship with a specter. As an incorporeal being, her inability to touch inanimate material objects distresses her. As an experiment, I was going to see if it's possible to cast Mage Armor on her. As with magic missile, this is a "force" spell effect, and as such shouldn't carry the 50% chance of failure that other types of magic do against incorporeals. My hope is this would surround her with a kind of force field fitted to her body that would allow her to use her fingers, manipulate objects etc. with the Mage Armor acting as a medium. If this works, I plan to look into acquiring a "Ghost Touch" magic item with a Mage Armor effect that she could wear, and that would permanently imbue her with Mage Armor as long as she has it on.

I'm not certain that this will work, and some of the questions I need answered don't seem to have ever come up before. It's an unusual situation.

1. How closely fitted to the skin is Mage Armor? I know that it's not a floating disk of force detached from the body, as with "Shield", but are we talking millimeters? Does it fit in between the digits of your fingers? In between every strand of hair?

2. Does Mage Armor allow tactile sensation to filter through? She's a specter, and force effects "press up" against her, so is there enough "give" to the armor that it could act as a medium for tactile sensation, or is it totally static and unable to do this?

3. Incorporeal undead have no Strength score. If she were to interact with the material world with the armor as mediator, would she even be able to lift anything? My DM doesn't think it should matter, and since this possibility doesn't seem to have come up before, the DM suggested making up a Strength score to reflect what the specter had in life. The reason Strength is usually left out of their stats is because it's never relevant . . . under normal circumstances. I could work a "Bull's Strength" into the item, if necessary.

4. Mage Armor gives an armor bonus of +4; a magic item of this kind could have anywhere from +1 to +8. In combat, Mage Armor is not impenetrable, so would ordinary objects be able to pass through her if she pressed on them too hard? Or is it like a suit of plate armor, which would never be penetrated from something like picking up a comb and is thus not relevant to anything outside combat?

[Kaww]

'Ask your DM' is the answer to all your questions.

This is all just how I would rule, nothing more:

1) Well it says armor, so you could have it between your fingers

2) I'd say no, armor doesn't allow you to sense fine things through it. You can sense things like metal, stone, but not silk, water etc. Also, can she sense material things is a much more important question.

3) I'd say no she wouldn't be able, but your DM gave you the answer to this one.

4) What does 'pres too hard' mean? I'd say that objects that are too heavy, that is if they weigh [insert number of pounds here], just fall through and she can't hold them.

[Soviet Onion]

4) What does 'pres too hard' mean? I'd say that objects that are too heavy, that is if they weigh [insert number of pounds here], just fall through and she can't hold them.

Mage Armour surrounds the person with a force field. Since it covers the entire body, it's reasonable to assume that any successful attack has succeeded by punching through the armor rather than finding a gap.

Logically, if she were to push against something with too much force, or pick up something too heavy (with gravity delivering the force), it would punch through the mage armor and either pass through her or end up trapped inside the armor shell, just as when a crossbow bolt pierces a suit of plate armor.

[Soviet Onion]

Oh, and as for the second question . . .

2) I'd say no, armor doesn't allow you to sense fine things through it. You can sense things like metal, stone, but not silk, water etc. Also, can she sense material things is a much more important question.

My main query is whether of not Mage Armor is flexible or rigid. She's incorporeal, and Mage Armor is a force effect, so she can feel it (all magic can do this, but only force effects do so consistently). If the armor were to bend if pressed on by an outside force then she could feel it pressing on her form in a comparable way, and it would act as mediator for the sensation. This would also depend on how "thin and fine" the force field is. A telephone book is flexible but would not let much sensation through. Not so if Mage Armor is as thin as a cotton T-shirt.

[Otodetu]

I am very sure mage armour does not work this way.
I see it more as a reactive and abstract effect than a body suit.


By game rules mage armour does no such thing, and there is the Ghostly Grasp feat from libris mortis that allows a incorporeal creature to do just about anything a corporeal creature can do.

And there are magical items that allow a incorporeal creature to interact with the real world, but i don't remember any on the top of my head.

[tenshiakodo]

So here's a fun question:

A Ghost Wizard casts Mage Armor upon itself. Can you hit the Ghost with normal weapons, since it's surrounded by a Force effect (not worried about damaging it, just touching it)? If not, why?

[BobVosh]

1. How closely fitted to the skin is Mage Armor?

2. Does Mage Armor allow tactile sensation to filter through?

3. Incorporeal undead have no Strength score. If she were to interact with the material world with the armor as mediator, would she even be able to lift anything?

4. In combat, Mage Armor is not impenetrable, so would ordinary objects be able to pass through her if she pressed on them too hard?

All, as previously noted, is ask your DM.
For me:
1. Not very. I could have sworn somewhere said it was like full plate (obviously a bad full plate at +4) but I can't find it.

2. Yes.

3. Kind of a catch 22. They are listed as str 0 since they can't pick up stuff due to be incorpereal. I would give them a weak str (like a 6) if somehow they become capable of effecting the real world.

4. I would say yes.

So here's a fun question:

A Ghost Wizard casts Mage Armor upon itself. Can you hit the Ghost with normal weapons, since it's surrounded by a Force effect (not worried about damaging it, just touching it)? If not, why?

All you can hit is the armor. Since the armor has no hit points...

[FelixG]

One important thing to consider:

What is her strength? If she is like most incorporeal critters i know she has a STR of 0, meaning she cant really exert force on objects with weight even if she did have the medium to do so.

Though that would be an entertaining way to trap a wraith or shadow, slap a set of ghost touch armor on them and watch em drop imobilized

[tenshiakodo]

It's funny, really, that the rules never seem to take into account how incorporeal creatures interact with other incorporeal creatures; a ghost has a Strength score, for example, which actually comes into play should it possess a ghost touch weapon or has to interact with another incorporeal creature (the ghost template doesn't affect the base creature's strength, it's the incorporeal subtype that gives you an effective strength of 0).

In Fred Perry's Gold Digger, he came up with the idea of Rook, the Ghost Knight, who wore a suit of enchanted (presumably Ghost Touch) full plate, allowing him to wield weapons and be a real pain in the rump to deal with.

[Steveotep]

Ghostwalk has the Ring of Manifesting (p67) for 10000 gp. It is a ghost touch item that removes all the effects of the incorporeal subtype as long as it is worn.

If you are on a budget for 6000 gp you can try Gloves of Ghost Touch. This is from p138 of everyone's favourite sourcebook the Book of Erotic Fantasy.