[3.5] increasing touch ac... without magic.

[fortesama]

is this even possible? i remember in an old game where the dm threw a...something with a ridiculous touch ac (we could only hit it on a 20).

[BobVosh]

Increase to hit for touch ac, or your own touch ac?

For the second: feats like dodge can help, monk gives wisdom to touch ac, and small races have +1 ac for touch.

Most of what I know is magical though. Are items a no-no?

[Talbot]

Just built a build (I'll dig up a link later) that manages to get their touch AC into the 40s at least by 20th level. Basically:

Kung Fu Genius Monk 1 lets you add your Int to it
Swordsage 2 lets you add your Wis to it
Battle Dancer 1 lets you add your Cha to it
Unarmored AC variant from Unearthed Arcana gives you a scaling bonus based on your class and level as long as you don't wear armor

My method presupposes some decent stat rolls, and sort of creates some MAD, but with it a +6 Belt of Magnificence boosts your touch AC by 12 (in addition to helping out in all the other ways it helps out). You could reduce your MAD a bit by using Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade to eliminate any need for Str if you're a melee character, or Faerie Mysteries Initiate to cut back your reliance on Con if you don't mind being a Grey Elf (which gives you +2 Int and Dex anyways, which bumps up your touch AC by 2 right off the bat). Also, depending on how high you care about getting it, you don't need to take all six of the levels listed above.

Alternatively, there's a ridiculous trick you can do with Defending weapons and the concealed weapons from Complete Adventurer.

Edit: Here's that build I was talking about: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167959

[Kelb_Panthera]

The two easiest and most basic ways, are fighting defensively and combat expertise. Together they can grant up to +7 in dodge bonus for a -9 to-hit. 1 level in monk, or 2 in swordsage can net you your wis to ac and the class features specifically say that it applies to touch as well as regular ac.

[Animefunkmaster]

To be fair (rai), the swordsage's armored bonus shouldn't stack with monk... and to be a raw nazi you have to be wearing light armor.

Aside from monk levels, pumping dex, things like invisible blade/duelist int to ac (which isn't as good as monk ac), your also looking at templates... like ghost or saint (which is easier for a dm to use than a player).

[Alleine]

The feats Shield Specialization and Shield Ward in PHB2 will net you a +1 shield bonus and gets your shield bonus to apply to touch AC, and to resist grapple checks, trip attempts, bull rush, disarm, and overrun attempts. Specialization is a prereq for Ward.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Shield Ward (PH2): Your shield bonus is now added to your touch AC, including enhancement bonuses. Requires Shield Specialization, which increases your shield bonus by 1 and gets included in your touch AC.

Deflective Armor (RoS): When psionically focused and wearing heavy armor, your armor bonus is added to your touch AC, including enhancement bonuses. Requires Heavy Armor Optimization, which increases your armor bonus by 1 among other things and gets included in your touch AC. This paves the way for Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, which improves your armor bonus by 1 more, thus further improving your touch AC.

[Duke of URL]

Be small. As small as possible. Size modifiers apply to touch AC. (Fine will get you to +8.)

[Snake-Aes]

The two easiest and most basic ways, are fighting defensively and combat expertise. Together they can grant up to +7 in dodge bonus for a -9 to-hit. 1 level in monk, or 2 in swordsage can net you your wis to ac and the class features specifically say that it applies to touch as well as regular ac.

If you have 5+ranks in tumble, defensive fighting goes from +2 to +3. Total defense also goes from +4 to +6, but you can't use total defense with expertise. Still it's a good +8 to ac.

[Esser-Z]

and to be a raw nazi you have to be wearing light armor.

That is known to be something that would have been fixed in the errata, except TOO BAD! IT'S ME, COMPLETE MAGE!

[jiriku]

The wilder has a class feature allowing to add Wis to touch AC, up to a maximum of its normal AC. The thief-acrobat gains +2 AC, or +3 when fighting defensively. A dwarf or gnome gets +4 against giants.

The broad-bladed shortsword, an exotic weapon in Complete Adventurer, gives you +2 AC when you fight defensively or take a -2 or greater penalty when using Combat Expertise.

Anything that gives you a dodge bonus or untyped bonus to AC will help. I'm also fond of simple high Dexterity as an easy way to pump touch AC.

Situationally, cover grants you +4, and improved cover +8. Getting into melee imposes a -4 to hit if anyone tries to tag you with a ranged touch attack. Aid Another from an ally can grant you +2 AC against one attack (pets and followers are especially useful for this one, as it doesn't require a large attack bonus and tends not to draw unwanted aggro).

A class built for defensive AC can stack these benefits pretty high. For example, a gnome thief-acrobat with Dex 22 and 5+ Tumble ranks, fighting defensively with full Combat Expertise and using a broad-bladed shortsword, has a 30 touch AC with no magic gear whatsoever, and effectively a 38 touch AC vs. ranged touch attacks that must be traced through the square occupied by his opponent. And if he's using feats like Acrobatic Strike, Confound the Big Folk and Underfoot combat, he can pick up +8 to hit and a 50% miss chance too.

[Greenish]

Fist of the Forest gains Con to AC.

Dwarven Defender's Defensive Stance gives +4 Dodge bonus, which, as mentioned, also helps touch AC.

[Jornophelanthas]

The thief-acrobat gains +2 AC, or +3 when fighting defensively.

Actually, the Thief-Acrobat gains +1 AC when fighting defensively and +2 when performing total defense at Thief-Acrobat 2. At Thief-Acrobat 4, this increases to +2 AC when fighting defensively and +3 when performing total defense. This prestige class gives no unconditional AC bonus.
(Still, you no longer count as flatfooted when performing certain acrobatic activities, which allows for a better touch AC at those times.)

The broad-bladed shortsword, an exotic weapon in Complete Adventurer, gives you +2 AC when you fight defensively or take a -2 or greater penalty when using Combat Expertise.

In the official errata to Complete Adventurer, the AC bonus provided by the broadblade short sword is reduced to +1.

And an addition of my own:
Check out the Duelist prestige class in the Dungeon Master Guide. Canny Defense (available at Duelist 1) allows you to add your INT modifier to your Dexterity modifier for AC purposes. However, this only works if you wear no armor.
Elaborate Parry (available at Duelist 7) is the jackpot, however. When fighting defensively or performing total defense, you may add your Duelist levels to your Dodge AC. By the time you get this ability, the bonus is +7 already, and can go up to +10.

[Jornophelanthas]

When I posted my above reply, I knew I had already contributed to a thread about this topic in this very forum.

Check out:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167741

[jiriku]

In the official errata to Complete Adventurer, the AC bonus provided by the broadblade short sword is reduced to +1.

Sadness. That moves it from being only situationally useful down to being always a bad investment for a feat slot.

[Vulaas]

Halfling Saint
Monk 1/Druidic Avenger 1

Congrats, your EL4 character gets Wis to AC three times. Remember to take Zen Archery and Insightful Strike, to be one SAD little man.

[Curmudgeon]

To be fair (rai), the swordsage's armored bonus shouldn't stack with monk... and to be a raw nazi you have to be wearing light armor.

Fist of the Forest gains Con to AC.

Class features with the same name and which provide modifiers to the same check or roll don't stack. In the case of AC it's the opposed attack roll that you're modifying. So the Monk AC Bonus, the Swordsage AC Bonus, and the Fist of the Forest AC Bonus can't stack, regardless of what ability they're using as the basis of the bonus. It's the name which establishes the source as far as stacking rules are concerned.

[Admiral Squish]

You can add armor and shield bonus to your touch AC with the feats Heavy Armor Specialization, Deflective Armor (Both from RoS), and Parrying Shield (LoM).

[Gnomo]

You can add armor and shield bonus to your touch AC with the feats Heavy Armor Specialization, Deflective Armor (Both from RoS), and Parrying Shield (LoM).

As was mentioned above you can also take Shield Specialization and Shield Ward from PHB2, with Parrying Shield you will add your Shield bonus to your touch AC twice. A +5 heavy shield will grant you +16 to your touch AC with those 3 feats (Shield Specialization, Shield Ward and Parrying Shield). Add Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor to get another +14 to your touch AC wearing a +5 full plate, but you need to have power points to take Deflective Armor, you can take Wild Talent (XPH/d20SRD) for this.

In the end you will get +30 to your touch AC with 6 feats while wearing a +5 full plate and a +5 heavy shield. Shield Ward will also grant your character a +8 bonus to resist being bullrushed, tripped, disarmed, overruned and grappled.

A better idea is to take a few levels of Psychic Warrior, this will save you from taking the Wild Talent feat, and will grant you some feats that you really need for this build.

[subject42]

If you don't consider the riverine special material to be magic, you can use it to turn half of your bonus from armor and shields into a deflection bonus.

The end result is that a riverine full plate set and a riverine tower shield would give you a +6 to touch AC.

[Greenish]

Class features with the same name and which provide modifiers to the same check or roll don't stack. In the case of AC it's the opposed attack roll that you're modifying. So the Monk AC Bonus, the Swordsage AC Bonus, and the Fist of the Forest AC Bonus can't stack, regardless of what ability they're using as the basis of the bonus. It's the name which establishes the source as far as stacking rules are concerned.

So? Who wants to be a monk?

[Pechvarry]

Class features with the same name and which provide modifiers to the same check or roll don't stack. In the case of AC it's the opposed attack roll that you're modifying. So the Monk AC Bonus, the Swordsage AC Bonus, and the Fist of the Forest AC Bonus can't stack, regardless of what ability they're using as the basis of the bonus. It's the name which establishes the source as far as stacking rules are concerned.

As much as I like that interpretation, I can't imagine it be correct (at least not the Fist of the Forest one). Sure, maybe both are called AC Bonus and they both add a bonus to AC, but that's not taking into account the actual text of the ability -- you're just looking at the title and what it does. The wording will, invariably, be something like "add your <stat> as a bonus to your AC". This means they're untyped bonuses from different sources: one from con, one from wis. They just happen to share a class feature name, which isn't uncommon (Once again, my Paladin/Cleric/Ordained Champion with the Holy Warrior ACF, the Holy Warrior feat, and the Holy Warrior class feature).

[Zherog]

And an addition of my own:
Check out the Duelist prestige class in the Dungeon Master Guide. Canny Defense (available at Duelist 1) allows you to add your INT modifier to your Dexterity modifier for AC purposes. However, this only works if you wear no armor.

Don't forget, however, that Canny Defense is limited to your duelist level. So if you're only going to dip into the class for the first level, your bonus is limited to +1, regardless of how high your Int score is.

[Curmudgeon]

As much as I like that interpretation, I can't imagine it be correct (at least not the Fist of the Forest one).

FAQ answer by Andy Collins:

Does the Armor Class bonus ability from the monk, swordsage, and ninja stack?
No, each of these abilities provides the same bonus. You are not able to benefit from multiple sources that have the same name more then once.

From Rules of the Game: Does It Stack? (Part One) by Skip Williams:

Rules Governing Bonuses

The basic rule to remember when combining two or more bonuses is this: two or more bonuses of different type stack, and two or more bonuses of the same type overlap. In general, a bonus's name indicates its type. A bonus with no name has no type and it stacks with any other bonus, but not with itself.

And from Rules of the Game: Does It Stack? (Part Four), also by Skip Williams:

There's not much to stacking bonuses. Just remember the basic rules:

• Bonuses with different names stack.
• Bonuses with the same names overlap (don't stack)
• Bonuses with no names stack with any other bonuses (but not with themselves).

[Snake-Aes]

FAQ answer by Andy Collins:
From Rules of the Game: Does It Stack? (Part One) by Skip Williams:
And from Rules of the Game: Does It Stack? (Part Four), also by Skip Williams:

Also note that it says 'in general' the name defines a type, so sometimes there will be overlaps that actually stack. Int-monk + swordsage probably shouldn't stack.

But just having the same name when they represent wildly different things shouldn't not-stack. For example, Bounding Assault. There is a feat and a Sublime maneuver. One is a chargelike double move + an attack, and the other is an extra attack allowed when you move and attack (it's a sequel to spring attack). If you ignore the bit where he says that "In general, the name indicates its type", you are telling me that the maneuver disables the feat, and the feat forbids you from benefiting from the maneuver.

As in: "By RAW, use your common sense. You have an int score irl for a reason"

[Talbot]

Eh, FAQs aren't RAW and that FAQ is specifically dealing with a case of stacking the same WIS bonus repeatedly; my build employs a Wis bonus, and Int bonus, and a Cha bonus. As a DM, I'd definitely allow it (you're spending four class levels on it, after all, and creating some MAD if you want to get a lot of mileage out of it) and I think it's sort of silly to disallow it just because the powers have the same name; the Rogue's sneak attack stacks with almost every other source of sneak attack, so the whole "powers with the same name from different classes don't stack" idea is, well, silly.

Of course, I suppose it's up to your DM, but it should work by RAW and I think RAI on the subject is debatable; if they didn't want it to stack, it wouldn't have been that hard to make it an Insight or Competence bonus instead of an untyped bonus.

[Snake-Aes]

Eh, FAQs aren't RAW and that FAQ is specifically dealing with a case of stacking the same WIS bonus repeatedly; my build employs a Wis bonus, and Int bonus, and a Cha bonus. As a DM, I'd definitely allow it (you're spending four class levels on it, after all, and creating some MAD if you want to get a lot of mileage out of it) and I think it's sort of silly to disallow it just because the powers have the same name; the Rogue's sneak attack stacks with almost every other source of sneak attack, so the whole "powers with the same name from different classes don't stack" idea is, well, silly.

Don't tell that to the guy with a cleric with the Holy Warrior reserve feat and takes 5 levels in Ordained Champion :p

[Greenish]

the Rogue's sneak attack stacks with almost every other source of sneak attack, so the whole "powers with the same name from different classes don't stack" idea is, well, silly.

Well, that's usually specifically called out as stacking.

[Curmudgeon]

But just having the same name when they represent wildly different things shouldn't not-stack. For example, Bounding Assault. There is a feat and a Sublime maneuver. One is a chargelike double move + an attack, and the other is an extra attack allowed when you move and attack (it's a sequel to spring attack).

I don't see an issue for the example you provided. The basic stacking limits apply to "modifiers to a given check or roll". Granting an extra attack is outside that scope.

WotC has a tradition of defining things by name rather than mechanics. There's a 3.0 feat called Expert Tactician in Song and Silence, which grants an extra attack against an enemy denied their DEX bonus to AC. This was officially replaced by a 3.5 feat called Expert Tactician in Complete Adventurer, which grants a bonus against an enemy you hit with an AoO. The feats have nothing in common but the name, and yet the 3.5 feat and the replacement rule makes the older feat disallowed.

the Rogue's sneak attack stacks with almost every other source of sneak attack

That's solely because almost every other source of sneak attack has explicit language overriding the basic stacking rule. Without those exceptions no sneak attack stacking is permitted. Since there are a few cases where WotC dropped the ball and failed to include exception language, the only way to stack things is to include a third source which does include exception language. So you can't stack Rogue + Fatemaker (one of those WotC goofs) for sneak attack, but with Rogue + Fatemaker + Assassin all the sneak attack dice get added together.

[Snake-Aes]

Your two later quotes refer to bonuses of the same type, not bonuses to the same thing.