Dread Necromancer?

[Scarey Nerd]

What do you, great people of the playground, think of this class from Heroes of Horror? I like the flavour of it, but I'm a tad uncertain as to how good it would be mechanically.

Thanks in advance

[The Mentalist]

I like it personally. Strongish, functional necromancer. If you can talk to the DM about getting some extra spells on your list it's wonderful. It does need some houseruling in my opinion but it's a solid class.

[mootoall]

I'm personally a big fan of it. By fourth level, strength based actions aren't really a problem for it, 'cause you can get an owlbear skeleton to do it for you. And it's a caster that doesn't run out of options once it runs out of spells with its single martial weapon proficiency and charnel touch. Not to mention it's damned hard to beat it by surrounding it, since Fear Aura + Negative Energy burst is pretty good. Not to mention the fact that NEB is just a fun feature to play with. Surround yourself with eight undead creatures, wade into melee, charnel touch + spectral hand, and when your undead meatshield, which can attack as effectively as you want, gets damaged, NEB them back to full health with 10d4 negative energy damage at tenth level.

[Mordokai]

I'm sure you figured it out already, but for a cost of single feat (Tomb tainted soul), you effectively gain unlimited healing for yourself from level one.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use your abilities to debuff and disable your enemies, and let your undead minions beat down their HP. Ray of Enfeeblement/Exhaustion on melee mobs, Blindness on aberrations and lightly/unarmored humanoids, Enervation on enemy spellcasters, etc. Use Summon Undead to get additional combatants for dealing damage or just to use as meat shields so you won't get attacked. Get a Ghostly Visage familiar at 7th level and have it always possessing you, in combat it can manifest over your face to use its paralyzing gaze against your opponents which your undead minions are immune to. Think of it as a Batman character, but instead of buffing the rest of party it brings its own damage dealers and tanks, and it can heal itself and all of its minions to full between every encounter.

[Rezby]

What tier would you guys consider Dread Necromancer to be in? Not really 1 since it doesn't do anything/everything, but I think tier 2 is appropriate for what it can do?

[raitalin]

What tier would you guys consider Dread Necromancer to be in? Not really 1 since it doesn't do anything/everything, but I think tier 2 is appropriate for what it can do?

It's generally considered tier 3 because of its very restrictive (in comparison to choosing Sorcerer spells) spell list.

[SurlySeraph]

I don't like it much flavor-wise (to me "Necromancer" generally means "Creepy pale guy hiding behind his zombies" rather than "Charismatic fighter with a bunch of undead"), but the mechanics are plenty good.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you will look at the tier thread, it along with the other themed casters, is in Tier 3.

[BenTheJester]

People often consider only the first 8 levels to be REALLY worth it, but it is a good class all the way to 20(tier 3)


I was once the party tank/healer by playing this class.

My necromancer tanked for the first few levels(where healing and DR can make you a tougher tank than the party's physical guy), and when my ability to tank started to fade, I used a zombie(or was it skeleton?) Hydra to tank for us.

As for healing, I was able to do it thanks to 2 homebrew spell:

Energy Reversal
Transmutation
Level: DrdNec 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw:Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subjects body reacts differently to negative and positive energy. If used on a living target, the creature gets healed by negative energy and damaged by positive energy. If used on an undead target, the the creature gets healed by positive energy and damaged by negative energy.

The spell has no effect on ability drain or other effects caused by negative/positive energy abilities

and

Energy Reversal, Mass
Transmutation
Level: DrdNec 6
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
This spell functions like energy reversal, except that it affects multiple creatures.

But I guess that if your whole party is willing to take the Tomb-tainted Soul feat, you can make it work without homebrew.


In such a case, don't forget that Destruction Retribution makes all your undead pets healing bombs.

[mootoall]

Speaking of which, both Tomb-Tainted Soul and Corpsecrafter are must-have feats. Corpsecrafter because you will be creating a LOT of undead, and as said before, they're gonna be excellent tanks. Not to mention, corpsecrafter gives you access to a whole mess of feats that make your minions even more valuable.

[Nanoblack]

Speaking of which, both Tomb-Tainted Soul and Corpsecrafter are must-have feats. Corpsecrafter because you will be creating a LOT of undead, and as said before, they're gonna be excellent tanks. Not to mention, corpsecrafter gives you access to a whole mess of feats that make your minions even more valuable.

Eh, corpsecrafter isn't as necessary as you might think. Only the HP bonus stacks with undead mastery at 8th level, but yes the other feats in the line are fine and dandy if you don't mind throwing one away. That being said, you'd probably be better off focusing on boosting your spell save DCs first, otherwise all of your feats are going to be a waste till 8th level.

[Escheton]

The bag of explosive zombie-kittens trick is quite fun if the entire party has Tomb-tainted soul.

[Greenish]

I don't like it much flavor-wise (to me "Necromancer" generally means "Creepy pale guy hiding behind his zombies" rather than "Charismatic fighter with a bunch of undead"), but the mechanics are plenty good.

Beyond the lowest levels, it's not much of a fighter. Poor BAB, poor fort, poor HD (it's d6, right?), light armour. Charnel Touch isn't really worth going to the front ranks to deliver.

If you will look at the tier thread, it along with the other themed casters, is in Tier 3.

Well, it's in tier 3 with beguiler. Warmage didn't make it.

[Gavinfoxx]

I thought warmage managed tier 3? Ah well.

[TechnOkami]

Question: which books are tomb-tainted soul, corpsecrafter, and undead leadership found in?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Question: which books are tomb-tainted soul, corpsecrafter, and undead leadership found in?

All three are in Libris Mortis. There's a quicker way to find out these things.

[Coidzor]

All three are in Libris Mortis. There's a quicker way to find out these things.

Ooo, hadn't found that link yet, thanks.

Basically, the straightest way to play it AFAIK is as a variant on the hordeficer only with undead instead of homunculi supporting a construct.

I like the class myself. But then I sort of like the idea of getting to be a fractactical genius every now and then. I've made a few to play around with the class, but, my last DM banned them after the first one this girl was playing OGRE ZOMBIE'D a final boss encounter in the Red Hand of Doom and was generally disruptive to the game with that character.

[Elemental_Elf]

I really enjoy the class. Good mix of Necromantic-themed spells, rebuke undead, good class abilities, d6 hit die... Even if you don't actively summon/create undead, the class is still great for those who really like (spamming) Necromancy spells.

My friend (who loves the class even more than I) was always discouraged by the fact that you don't really become a Lich at 20th level.

[Zaydos]

Solid tier 3. Not as strong as a sorcerer (limits on the list do this), and if you reach Lv 8 you're the best at commanding hordes of undead of any character in the game. It's just a shame they don't get desecrate and that they get Animate Dead when wizards do not when clerics do (also they get Death Ward twice, and Planar Binding without Magic Circle Against X, although Planar Binding is possible without Magic Circle just stupidly dangerous as you have 1 chance to make your offer before a very angry demon attacks you).

I've seen one played and they were an effective, but not overwhelming, character up until they multi-classed into warlock. Was geared towards defense and used a bow to avoid melee. Really low optimization party, the sorcerer and wizard used unoptimized blasting, the duskblade went heavy armor, two-handed weapon without power attack (and then wandered why he kept getting hit in melee), there was a wizard/druid who mostly used her animal companion as the best melee in the group, another wizard who used odd combo spells but not in combat, an optimized beguiler (who changed how he was role-played just to get Vow of Non-Violence for the save DC boost), eventually there was a heal-bot priest who ended up getting NPC'd more often than not, and then there was the DMPC a defense oriented warlock. Once they multiclassed into warlock he fit into the party better, but was still one of the stronger characters (along with the DMPC, wizard/druid, and beguiler).

[Maerok]

I don't like it much flavor-wise (to me "Necromancer" generally means "Creepy pale guy hiding behind his zombies" rather than "Charismatic fighter with a bunch of undead"), but the mechanics are plenty good.

My 9th level DN had like 21+ Charisma and with an ungodly amount of Bluff he became the party face. There were some scythe CDGs, a few deathly mishaps, and a good time was had by all.

I prefer DN in more of a death magician role since raising an army and then using it requires a ton of micromanaging and it's great for me because I don't have to paw through hundreds (at a conservative estimate) spells and he gets more than a sorcerer in the long-run. Tack on spontaneous casting (since I'd otherwise spend an hour at a time picking which ones to prepare) and it's perfect for my playstyle.