Any good Beguiler Prc's?

[TechnOkami]

I'm looking to making a beguiler, and want to know what classes would work well with the class. Play on little giants, play on.

[GoatBoy]

Not so much since the class has more to offer aside from its spell list.

A 1 level dip in Mindbender (CArc) for at-will telepathy (and then mindsense from Lords of Madness, pg. 126) is good, especially for pushing your advanced learning up a level.

Aside from that, you'll probably be better off sticking with the base class.

[TechnOkami]

That simplifies things XD

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not unless you want to go for potentially game-breaking or nerf-batting (depending on your interpretation of the text vs table debate) of Rainbow Servant

[Urpriest]

They're also good for Ultimate Magus builds, but in that case you're not really playing a Beguiler, just a Wizard with some extra illusions, so that's probably not what you're looking for.

[TechnOkami]

1. What's this potentially game breaking build I hear? (ah the power of cheese...)

2. I was thinking something more along the lines of a sneaky spell slinger, which is (to my interpretation) what a Beguiler generally is.

P.S. I want to make a changeling and have her either be a beguiler or a dread necromancer, and beguiler is currently winning as per the sneaky factor.

[HunterOfJello]

The Beguiler Handbook lists:

Shadow Adept
Mindmender (1 level dip)
Visionary Seeker (1 level dip)
Shadowcraft Mage

[Starbuck_II]

Sandshaper adds 20 or more spells that useful. Since Beguilers have a set list of known adding to is useful. Sandshaper is found in Sandstorm book.

Fiend-Blooded adds a few fire, Enchantment, Necromancy, or Illusion spells from Wizard/Sorceror list not on Beguiler list. (Heroes of Horror book)

[GoatBoy]

I will just refer you to the New Beguiler's Handbook which can probably answer every question you have.

Best of luck. The Beguiler is probably my favourite base class.

[Urpriest]

1. What's this potentially game breaking build I hear? (ah the power of cheese...)

2. I was thinking something more along the lines of a sneaky spell slinger, which is (to my interpretation) what a Beguiler generally is.

P.S. I want to make a changeling and have her either be a beguiler or a dread necromancer, and beguiler is currently winning as per the sneaky factor.

Rainbow Servant is a prestige class that gives either partial casting (I think 6/10) or full casting, depending on whether you read the table or the text. Since text normally wins out, and later translations of the book have full casting on both the table and text, most people argue that it's full casting. It is controversial though, since the example character is generated with partial casting, and the class is listed as a partial casting one on the table in the beginning of the chapter.

The benefit of the class, if it is full-casting, is that tenth level in it grants you the access to all cleric spells. For a wizard or a sorceror, this means you can go out and learn these spells, which is cool. For a beguiler/dread necromancer/warmage, this instead means you have automatic spontaneous access to all cleric spells, since you have automatic spontaneous access to your entire spell list. Which is pretty damn awesome, even if it is a high level trick.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For Changeling, you want to start off 1st level as Rogue. You get the following with sub level:

* 10 skill points. This is then multiplied by 4 for being your first level.
* Take 10 on all social skills.

Then take Able Learner to keep all those skills as class skills.

Then go into either Beguiler or Dread Necro.

[Thurbane]

You could also dip Rogue 1 or Spellthief 1, and then into Unseen Seer to increase sneak attack, but probably overall weaker than Beguiler 20 or Beguiler 19/Minbender 1...

...also, if you dip Binder 1 (or take two binding feats), you could take Anima Mage to get 10 levels of sould binding and 10 levels of arcane casting. Add a little versatility to the Beguiler, but again, not optimal.

[Fax Celestis]

For changeling beguilers, Recaster's a decent option. It loses a CL, but you get the Recaster's far far superior Expanded Knowledge over the Beguiler's version.

[TechnOkami]

Rainbow Servant is a prestige class that gives either partial casting (I think 6/10) or full casting, depending on whether you read the table or the text. Since text normally wins out, and later translations of the book have full casting on both the table and text, most people argue that it's full casting. It is controversial though, since the example character is generated with partial casting, and the class is listed as a partial casting one on the table in the beginning of the chapter.

The benefit of the class, if it is full-casting, is that tenth level in it grants you the access to all cleric spells. For a wizard or a sorceror, this means you can go out and learn these spells, which is cool. For a beguiler/dread necromancer/warmage, this instead means you have automatic spontaneous access to all cleric spells, since you have automatic spontaneous access to your entire spell list. Which is pretty damn awesome, even if it is a high level trick.

...can you deliberate on that a little more?

[Dusk Eclipse]

...can you deliberate on that a little more?

I am not sure what are you refering to, but I will take my chances.

As a capstone, Rainbow Servant adds all the cleric list to your spell list, wizards and sorcerer have a limited number of spells they can select from the spell list as spell known; but list casters (Dread Necromancer, Warmage & Beguiler) automatically know all their spell list therefore with the capstone of Rainbow Servant you know the entire cleric list (plus a few spells from some domains you gain)

The problem lies that the table of the prestige class shows a casting advancement of less than 10/10 while the text says it advances casting at all levels, AFAIK by RAW you must follow the text even when the table is different.

Clearer now?

[TechnOkami]

Yes, much clearer. >:D Now I want to know what builds there are for the Rainbow Savant, Beguiler, and Dread Necro, if any.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Rainbow Servant Handbook

Be my guest, the earlies entry in the handbook is at level 2, yes at level 2. Be careful with the DMG that will surely be thrown at you.

[TechnOkami]

Would a Dread Necromancer Beguiler be worth it?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Would a Dread Necromancer Beguiler be worth it?

In a word: No.

You loose too many cool abilities plus too much cool casting. In attempting to play both, you end up with neither.

[lsfreak]

You should also never use Rainbow Servant unless it's specifically a high-op game. It takes one of the most broken classes in the game (cleric) and makes it broken-er (completely spontaneous casting of the entire list), and you get some of the best non-broken wizard spells on top of it.

[TechnOkami]

mmk, so it boils down to if I want to be come: a Beguiler, a Dread Necromancer, or a Warlock.

- - I really hate these decisions. T_T




Oh, speaking of which, is the walker in the wastes PrC any good/worth it?

[Dusk Eclipse]

mmk, so it boils down to if I want to be come: a Beguiler, a Dread Necromancer, or a Warlock.

- - I really hate these decisions. T_T




Oh, speaking of which, is the walker in the wastes PrC any good/worth it?

If you can't decide between Beguiler, dread necro or warlock I suggest going Dread Necro 3/Warlock 2/Eldritch Theurge 10 (found in complete mage)

Walker in the Waste is a good prestige class for Dread necros if they can quallify (I recall using Arcane Disciple for thirst domain) since they get a better template (dry lich is much better than vanilla lich) and I think they can get the undead-ness some levels before.

[Thurbane]

Would a Dread Necromancer Beguiler be worth it?

Only in gestalt.

[TechnOkami]

If you can't decide between Beguiler, dread necro or warlock I suggest going Dread Necro 3/Warlock 2/Eldritch Theurge 10 (found in complete mage)

Walker in the Waste is a good prestige class for Dread necros if they can quallify (I recall using Arcane Disciple for thirst domain) since they get a better template (dry lich is much better than vanilla lich) and I think they can get the undead-ness some levels before.

So I'd be a super lich... >:D

[Dusk Eclipse]

So I'd be a super lich... >:D

IIRC youhave 4 philacteries... Cha mod to HP and all around better modifiers. so yeah superlich.... I think there was a special vulnerability towards water but I am not sure

[TechnOkami]

yes actually. normal water = holy water to dry liches.... I don't want to think of what normal holy water would do to me

And wouldn't I need to dip a level into cleric or something to get the thirst/sand domain req?

[Dusk Eclipse]

yes actually. normal water = holy water to dry liches.... I don't want to think of what normal holy water would do to me

And wouldn't I need to dip a level into cleric or something to get the thirst/sand domain req?

Arcane Disciple takes care of that since the pre-req is be able to cast spells from the domains, and AD puts the domain spell on your spell list (which you automatically know)

[TechnOkami]

thanks. Which book has arcane disciple?

[Dusk Eclipse]

thanks. Which book has arcane disciple?

Complete Divine or Champion I am not sure

[TechnOkami]

kk, thanks