Riddle Needed for a Non-Intelligent Goliath Barbarian

[Ignatius]

Hey everyone...

Acog, if you start reading this and know who you are - please go away!

In our group we have a Goliath Barbarian with low intelligence and wisdom (10 and 8 respectively) who is trying to roleplay his character.

This is causing a few problems because he wants to make suggestions as a player but feels that his character would not understand the situations enough to come up with these suggestions.

So, in our last encounter the party of 6 found themselves arriving in Sigil, City of Doors. When one player asked if any of the PCs had been there before I turned the tables and asked the PCs to provide their own answer.

Only the Barbarian said he had been there, when he was only little.

I then went on to explain that the reason his wisdom and intelligence were so low was that when he was here last he met 'Rule-of-Three' as listed in DMG2 (page 203) and that he was given some of the 'advice in triplicate riddles that often contradict each other' and that his mind was still trying to figure out what it all meant.

The player and I have been looking for ways to increase the PCs intelligence and/or wisdom so that he can be more involved outside of combat and this is the perfect scenario...

The only problem is that I cannot think of a triplicate riddle that would be relevant and complicated enough for the entire group to assist him in solving so that he can get smarter.

Here is the background story that the player provided to give you a bit more background.

If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts or links to triplicate riddles would be greatly appreciated.

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Born in the huge caverns under the Mountains, Acog's tribe has spent the last few generations fighting mountain trolls and dragons. His mother left with an adventuring party who had misportaled into the area, searching for her he discovered the paths out of the mountains.

Now that he has decended into civilsation he has some simple goals, find his mother and enjoy civilization. By enjoying civilisation he has two loves. He likes objects that are shiny and he loves to fight. If he can fight things then get shiny objects... awesome. He will charge the enemy at the drop of a hat, so hat dropping has been banned in several small towns. Acog is tall and strong, wears functional and aggresive clothing. He is the kind of guy who has leather wristbands because he thinks thats what tough people wear.

[Flickerdart]

10 INT isn't low - it's the human average. Kids these days and their inflated ability scores.

[mucat]

I agree that a 10-Int character isn't exactly a mental lightweight. It's human average, and humans are a damned clever species when they decide to be.

However, I like the idea of the insoluble riddle that's been sapping the guy's brainpower his whole life. Instead of a straightforward riddle with an answer, though, I would make it a logic paradox ("This statement is false" or any of the myriad puzzles that spring from it) or a Zen-style koan. Either way, the reason he can't find the answer is that there is no answer, and what his friends have to do is help him do an end run around the problem.

There is no one solution that your players would have to find; if they dive into the problem and find a clever way to resole it, the goliath's obsession is lifted.

[Bonk Fever]

What exactly is a "triplicate riddle?"

[Ignatius]

Yep - we understand that 10 is average intelligence for a human... but this is the way the player is role playing the character so I need to run with it.

I am not exactly sure what a triplicate riddle is, which is why I cam to the playground.

I like the idea of the party helping him realize there is no answer, so I might hunt down a riddle or paradox that is a bit more in depth than just a single statement... does anyone know of any?

[Lhurgyof]

Take Bilbo's riddle "what's inside my pocket."

But make sure he agrees to the riddle beforehand.

[Starbuck_II]

Google said this, but it could be wrong:
Juliet comes home one night, and goes to her bedroom. Romeo is always there. She sees the window open so crosses over and closes it before going to sleep. In the morning she is alerted that Romeo has been found dead, outside, in a pool of water and broken glass. Below the same window. The bedroom’s on the ground floor. What’s going on?!?!

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Romeo is a fish. Who lives in a glass bowl. On the window sill. And is knocked off by Juliet when she closes the window. Romeo dies because he has no water since the bowl smashed.

[Weezer]

What exactly is a "triplicate riddle?"

I just tried to Google it to see if it was an 'official' type of riddle. This thread was the top two results...

Perhaps you could look up some traditional koans (I'd avoid 'what is the sound of one hand clapping' Someone will end up slapped) that catch your fancy and just go with those. Since they have no 'true' answer you can award your players with a success so long as they are creative.

[Valameer]

What about a paradox from Zeno? There's a few of them on Wikipedia but here is one:

The Arrow paradox:

For motion to occur, an object must change the position which it occupies. Imagine an arrow in flight. At any single instant of time, the arrow must be moving either from where it is or to where it is not. However, it cannot move to where it is not, because this is a single instant (like a very fast shutter speed photograph). It also cannot move to where it is going, because it is already there.

In other words, in any instant of time there is no motion occurring, because an instant is a snapshot. Therefore, if it cannot move in a single instant it cannot move in any instant, making any motion impossible.

So the appearance of motion is obviously an illusion.

The character in question could be constantly trying to figure out how things appear to move when they obviously, according to the paradox, cannot.

There's also one about the tortoise and the hare, where the hare can never catch the tortoise because he has to traverse infinite spacial points in finite time.

[Ignatius]

I think Paradox or Koan will what I need...

I am certain that the party will know the answer to 99% of logic puzzles...

[Ignatius]

Lyceios... I was just looking at that same arrow paradox thinking how I could apply it in game - that's a great suggestion!

[Valameer]

It gets even more fun when you look at "the Quantum Zeno effect" where you actually inhibit the motion of the arrow by observing it. :)

[Sir_Elderberry]

Lyceios... I was just looking at that same arrow paradox thinking how I could apply it in game - that's a great suggestion!

Plus, when your character finally does break the paradox in his brain, it's perfectly logical that he'd gain INT--after all, he has obtained Knowledge (Calculus).

[Dr.Epic]

A few I like from Are You Afraid of the Dark?:

How far can you walk into the woods?

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Half way; after that you're walking out of it.

What is it that has no weight, can be seen by the naked eye, and if you put it in a barrel would make the barrel lighter?

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a hole

[Hirax]

Toss brain in a vat or ship of Theseus conundrums at him. More info about both can easily be found on Google, those are elementary philosophical debacles.

[Jarrick]

What lies in the Valley of the Green Glass Doors?

Books, but no paper. Blizzards, but no Ice. Trees, but no leaves. Rolling, but no dice. Grass, but no earth. Geese but not ducks. Brooms, but no mops. And Sorrow but no Luck.

Name, if you will, three things more one might find and not in the valley of the green glass doors.

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Anything with a double letter is a solution so long as its counterpart doenst have one. Grass, but no earth, Trees but no leaves, etc.

[Vulkarius]

I'm helping!
http://listverse.com/2010/05/28/11-b...ing-paradoxes/

[darkpuppy]

For a helpful riddle, try this one:

What is always in god, but never the devil, always in fractions, but never in integers, and will show anyone your surprise when you figure me out?

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'o'

Or, if you want a wonderfully silly paradox, imagine a Drow said to the poor lad "Drow always lie. I am a Drow." only *really* works with computers and logic-bound people, but hey, it's still an amusing paradox.

[Reluctance]

Rule of Three's whole shtick is that all things come in groups of three. Your player handed you a character with two great loves. So flip the issue around. The goliath did three small jobs for Ro3, with each one being paid for with a cryptic riddle. Let the answer to the first one be something conflict-related, the answer to the second be gold or something else valuable and shiny, and the third be something tactical or clever.

[Toric]

One day while dusting the library, a bookkeeper gazed at the rows of book spines and noticed several with double-letters; words like "Brass", "Noose," and "bubble." She wondered, could there be such a word that follows the rule of three? One word, out of all, that contains three sets of double-letters in a row? Her dusting forgotten, she searched the library for three days looking for this one word. Each day, as her search failed to produce the word that she knew existed, her frustration grew. Finally, on the third day, just as she had given up, she found the word that ended her torment. What was that word?

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"Bookkeeper.

[Daelen]

One day while dusting the library, a bookkeeper gazed at the rows of book spines and noticed several with double-letters; words like "Brass", "Noose," and "bubble." She wondered, could there be such a word that follows the rule of three? One word, out of all, that contains three sets of double-letters in a row? Her dusting forgotten, she searched the library for three days looking for this one word. Each day, as her search failed to produce the word that she knew existed, her frustration grew. Finally, on the third day, just as she had given up, she found the word that ended her torment. What was that word?

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"Bookkeeper.

I just wanted to add, having read through this thread, that this one is possibly my favorite. Not for its ingenuity, but for the link it could have in a game. Have the key to solving the riddle be finding the bookkeeper, or the person who has access to Tomes. That way, there's an easy mechanical answer to why the Barbarian's wisdom and/or intelligence went up.

[LibraryOgre]

You might try looking for the Exeter book Riddles. Most have more than one meaning, though a number of them are double entendres. You should be able to find a source of them on-line (try the Internet medieval sourcebook).

[Mordaenor]

It gets even more fun when you look at "the Quantum Zeno effect" where you actually inhibit the motion of the arrow by observing it. :)

So Heisenberg is driving and gets stopped by a police officer. Officer looks at him and says "Sir, do you have any idea how fast your were going?" Heisenberg says "No officer, but I can tell you where I was."

[Ravens_cry]

Or, if you want a wonderfully silly paradox, imagine a Drow said to the poor lad "Drow always lie. I am a Drow." only *really* works with computers and logic-bound people, but hey, it's still an amusing paradox.

The paradox is resolved because people sometimes lie and sometimes tell the truth. He was lying when he said Drow always lie, they don't, as made evident by the fact he was telling the truth when he said he was a drow.
Still, for an impressionable lad who deals in absolutes, it might work.

[imp_fireball]

The only problem is that I cannot think of a triplicate riddle that would be relevant and complicated enough for the entire group to assist him in solving so that he can get smarter.

Get the wizard to craft a scroll of owl's wisdom and then cast it on him.

You can that at 1st level I think.

What exactly is a "triplicate riddle?"

A riddle consisting of three questions and three answers that make one answer I think - or maybe two questions, with the third question being the final answer resolved from solving the first two.