Ubercharger? And the intricacies and incoherence of power attack multipliers.

[FuryOfMetal]

What feats, equipment and classes go into an Ubercharger? Basic question

[Tyndmyr]

Varies. However, a great sword or spiked chain are popular weapons. Power attack and Shock Trooper are typically standard.

Races vary, but things with a strength bonus are favored. Human also can be handy, for the feat. Barbarian is considered nice, at least for a dip.

Im also a fan of the charge boosting feats from Eberron Campaign Setting, personally.

[herrhauptmann]

2 handed Adamant/greenstar metal weapon (CArc weapon that means every Greenstar Adept will be looking to eat your weapon)
Leap attack (CAdv), Combat Brute(CWar), Shocktrooper(Cwar). All prereqs
Spirit Lion totem barb1 (CChamp)
Belt of Battle
Lots of power attack
Frenzied Berserker (even more power attack)
Valorous weapon (double charging damage)
I usually get a smoking weapon for some flat miss chances too, otherwise I don't last too long due to shocktrooper dropping my AC to 2.
Weapon size increases (strongarm bracers, [heavy] weapons, Large size creature, psionic expansion)


Might I recommend retaliation armor or retribution amulet (BoED version)? The enemy's gonna get you good in exchange, but you can make them pay for hurting you. With the armor and power attacking for only 5, no pounce and no crits, had a level 12 fighter almost take down a Nightmare Beast (CR 15 or so). The downside is that I was at 19 HP and about to eat a second full attack.

[mostlyharmful]

what's mostly required is a willingness to crank the system, a restiveness to play a caster and an oafishness to break a GMs carefully created landscape as you do ten to the third power levels of damage......... good times....

[Person_Man]

Pounce + Optimized Power Attack + Lots of Attacks = Uber Charger

There are several other back door methods as well involving Tome of Battle maneuvers, Incarnum, Iaijutsu Focus, etc. But the most important piece of advice on uber chargers is to not over do it. There are plenty of ways to get thousands of points of damage per round. But the Tarrasque only has 858 hit points. Pushing your damage output up to absurd levels just forces the DM to make the encounters more difficult.

[JaronK]

I would argue that an ubercharger by definition is overdoing it. A "charger" is a character that specializes in defeating enemies by charging them... it's quite possible to have a reasonable one in game. An "ubercharger" is a charger that is intentionally unreasonable, doing absolutely insane amounts of damage. Really, I'd say you're not an "ubercharger" unless you can one hit TKO any opponent you'd ever reasonably fight... and you have multiple attacks to do it with.

Anyway, as Person Man has stated the basics of ubercharging involve getting pounce somehow (usually with Lion Totem Barbarian, as that's the easiest way), then optimizing Power Attack to extremes (usually with Shock Trooper + either Leap Attack or Spirited Charge, along with Valorous weapons and the Headlong Rush feat, and maybe with some Frenzied Berserker). Then consider extra attacks (Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, for example, or the Ferral template) and go nuts.

Note that a DM can still easily challenge an ubercharger... not everything can be solved by charging. Use of terrain, large numbers of enemies (as opposed to one big one), or simple non combat encounters can do the trick. Most Uberchargers use Shock Trooper and thus are very vulnerable to attacks from the second wave of enemies, and often have relatively poor Reflex and Will saves (not necessarily, of course).

JaronK

[Mando Knight]

Übercharging isn't broken... after all, it's still only weapon-based attacks. Now, if it were an Übercharging CoDzilla, then it would be broken.

...No, wait. That's the definition of Tier 1 classes. Nevermind.

[Postmodernist]

This thread has a number of good ideas, though it's specifically fluffed for Warforged. In particular, look at post #10. Make note of the caveat, "also note that your DM might just shoot you in the face with a pneumatic hammer gun."

[classy one]

I think deep impact is nice too. If you are going with psionic build, psionic lion charge and expansion are charging gold.

[Eldariel]

I think you're confusing terms; Charger is probably what you're looking for. Ubercharger is basically a Theoretical Optimization exercise to see how much damage you can squeeze out of a charger build.

[FMArthur]

I still haven't figured out a way to remount at the end of my leap for Leap Attack, and this makes me sad. Any advice? I'd like to avoid centaur if possible because my mount will be flying, to take advantage of the 'diving charge' the dragonborn template is giving me.

[Mongoose87]

I still haven't figured out a way to remount at the end of my leap for Leap Attack, and this makes me sad. Any advice? I'd like to avoid centaur if possible because my mount will be flying, to take advantage of the 'diving charge' the dragonborn template is giving me.

Have your mount be a centaur, wear two gauntlets with "Returning," have him throw you by the hands.

[herrhauptmann]

I still haven't figured out a way to remount at the end of my leap for Leap Attack, and this makes me sad. Any advice? I'd like to avoid centaur if possible because my mount will be flying, to take advantage of the 'diving charge' the dragonborn template is giving me.

You're leap attacking off of the back of a flying mount?
There's a prestige class, I think Great Rift sky defender which does just that.
Trying to find what book it's in, but coming up blank. A number of its abilities refer to a 'drogue wing.'

Rather then centaur, play as a bariaur. Same body shape, but fewer RHD.

[Urpriest]

Doesn't making your mount jump count as you jumping? I would think it would work like charging, though I guess I wouldn't be surprised if no specific rule allows it.

[herrhauptmann]

Urpriest, pretty sure a few FAQ, Ask Sage, and general consensus on the board is that riding a mount for ubercharging doesn't allow you to use leap attack.
That's part of why so many of the builds use tauric template, centaurs, bariaurs, and that inevitable in MM1.

If I'm wrong on that, then I'm making it a houserule in my games.

[Endarire]

Hood. Just because running up the enemy's leg, jumping onto his head, full attacking, and gliding onto your dragon mount is uber.

[FuryOfMetal]

Yeah i see now that i should've specified Charger, just Ubercharger is the in-thing term wise

I think i'd stick with lion totem barbarian, valorous smoky sizing weapons, strongarm bracers and maybe a friendly mage for enlarge person, combat brute and shock trooper. Alot of fun there surely

I know shock trooper is powerful but thematically i prefer the other abilities it gives you for bullrushing entire phalanxes of enemies ....i think.

Also i believe i never really understood the power of leap attack, could somebody explain to me it's usage?

:edit: I got leap attack confused with some other similiar sounding feat, leap attack is great now i read it and i couldn't have misunderstood it.

[Greenish]

Also i believe i never really understood the power of leap attack, could somebody explain to me it's usage?

You jump while charging and do more damage.

[Ernir]

Urpriest, pretty sure a few FAQ, Ask Sage, and general consensus on the board is that riding a mount for ubercharging doesn't allow you to use leap attack.

My favourite way around that kind of stuff is to just stand on the damn horse, and argue that the "The character takes no penalties to actions while doing so" means that anything I can do on the ground, I can now do on horseback.

:edit: I got leap attack confused with some other similiar sounding feat, leap attack is great now i read it and i couldn't have misunderstood it.

Make sure you have read the CAdv Errata too, there is more to it.

You're leap attacking off of the back of a flying mount?
There's a prestige class, I think Great Rift sky defender which does just that.
Trying to find what book it's in, but coming up blank. A number of its abilities refer to a 'drogue wing.'

Great Rift Skyguard, Races of Faerûn.

[FuryOfMetal]

Make sure you have read the CAdv Errata too, there is more to it.

Just found it:
Page 110: Leap Attack
The second sentence of the Benefit paragraph should
read as follows:
If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with
your jump, and you end your jump in a square from
which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the
normal bonus damage from your use of the Power
Attack feat.

I know there is some strange crossover between normal maths and dnd maths, but i thought you could apply feat effects in any order you wish. So you could apply leap attacks bonus after power attack, getting you double power attack. From then on apply the other feats in order to double (which makes it x3 power attack, then x4 etc.) the leap attacked power attack score? Please tell me if i'm way off here

[Greenish]

With normal PA with a two-hander, you'll get 1:2 returns. Leap Attack increases those returns by 100%, that is, to 1:4.

That only affects PA, after which you take your total damage and apply other modifiers, such as Valorous weapon's x2 to it.

[Shenanigans]

With normal PA with a two-hander, you'll get 1:2 returns. Leap Attack increases those returns by 100%, that is, to 1:4.

That only affects PA, after which you take your total damage and apply other modifiers, such as Valorous weapon's x2 to it.

Well, actually you only get 1:3 on PA with Leap Attack on a two-handed weapon, and 1:2 with a one-handed weapon.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...050107a&page=3

[Urpriest]

Well, actually you only get 1:3 on PA with Leap Attack on a two-handed weapon, and 1:2 with a one-handed weapon.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...050107a&page=3

The errata makes it 1:4 (that's the argument anyway, I think it's just a clumsy way of saying 1:3).

[FuryOfMetal]

Man i hate dnd maths, I know it tries to promote balance but it's annoying

[Curmudgeon]

Well, actually you only get 1:3 on PA with Leap Attack on a two-handed weapon, and 1:2 with a one-handed weapon.

No, it's 1:4. You just need to look in two different places to piece it all together.

Leap Attack feat (Complete Adventurer, page 110), with erratum:

Benefit: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat.

To understand what "+100% the normal bonus damage" means, we need to look elsewhere.

Complete Warrior Errata:

Supreme Power Attack: A 10th-level frenzied berserker deals +100% the normal damage from her use of the Power Attack feat. In other words, when using the Power Attack feat, a frenzied berserker wielding a two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on damage rolls (instead of a +2 bonus) for each –1 penalty she applies to her attack rolls.

Note importantly that this erratum takes Leap Attack out of all charge damage multiplications. If you have any other charge multipliers, figure those separately and then Leap Attack adds +1 (for a 1-handed nonlight weapon) or +2 (for a 2-handed weapon) for each -1 Power Attack penalty point.

[Shenanigans]

Thanks for the clarification folks. I now seem to recall a thread that dealt with this Leap Attack issue. And here I thought it was just deja vu all over again.

If I were DMing, I'd be tempted to houserule it in the spirit of the usual "two doublings is a tripling" logic that usually seems to reign in 3.X.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Hafling outrider can actually make a pretty good charger class in most games. The ability to charge through allied squares can be invaluable for setting up a charge every round. Pick up Spirited charge, Shock trooper, Power attack, and lion-totem-barbarian-pounce, and you're good to go.

[Greenish]

Note importantly that this erratum takes Leap Attack out of all charge damage multiplications. If you have any other charge multipliers, figure those separately and then Leap Attack adds +1 (for a 1-handed nonlight weapon) or +2 (for a 2-handed weapon) for each -1 Power Attack penalty point.

It does? I'm not quite sure on how that follows from the errata you quoted, since it seems just to say that the "+100% increase" just increases the PA ratio from 1:2 to 1:4.

It's still a bonus on the damage roll, so why isn't it multiplied?

[Curmudgeon]

It does? I'm not quite sure on how that follows from the errata you quoted, since it seems just to say that the "+100% increase" just increases the PA ratio from 1:2 to 1:4.

It's still a bonus on the damage roll, so why isn't it multiplied?

Because the erratum says it's always simply added. No multiplication is allowed.

[Urpriest]

Because the erratum says it's always simply added. No multiplication is allowed.

Even if the foe has vulnerability? This seems rather silly.

It is abundantly clear that it adds it to the bonus damage from power attack, not to the damage of the attack period. Otherwise it would add damage to, for example, the use of whips on unarmored targets.