grey guard and gestalt: 2 questions

[graeylin]

i have the opportunity to play a grey guard in a gestalt game. level 12.

I was planning on gestalting a paladin/cleric, then leaving paladin for grey guard, and keeping the cleric steady through the level progressions. It's more for flavor than optimizing, to work into the DM's world.

How does the GG spellcasting advancement work within gestalt? I would assume that essentially, i advance my 'former paladin' class/side with the spellcasting advancement of the GG. However, the words in the class features imply that i can choose which of the two divine caster classes I want to advance each time i get the chance to advance. So, can i somehow advance cleric through the GG feature, at the same time i am advancing it via gestalt level?

That seems broken, obviously, since Gestalt is semi-broken anyway. otherwise, i could end up with a 12th level PC able to cast as a 15th or something.

Second question, is favored soul a better gestalt than cleric? Or is there a better cleric choice, perhaps cloistered cleric? if so, why? pros/cons?

[Snake-Aes]

1) Prestige classes that advance spellcasting generally let you pick which caster class you have that you want to advance, each level you choose, and it advances only the chosen one.
2) Gestalt overlaps. If you take wiz20 on one side and an arcane prestige class on the other, the gained levels from the prestige are wasted (because wizard = 1 more caster level, and prestige = 1 more caster level). It's the same logic that applies to BAB, HP and Saves. Fighter//Barbarian doesn't get 2 bab per level.

[Lhurgyof]

I'd have to say stick with cleric.

And kinda unrelated but I HATE the Greyguard. It's like WotC doesn't even know how to pronounce Blackguard. Dx

[Fax Celestis]

I'd have to say stick with cleric.

And kinda unrelated but I HATE the Greyguard. It's like WotC doesn't even know how to pronounce Blackguard. Dx

They are an American company, so it is likely they went with the American pronunciation: blak-gahrd instead of blag-ahrd or blag-erd.

[Lhurgyof]

They are an American company, so it is likely they went with the American pronunciation: blak-gahrd instead of blag-ahrd or blag-erd.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blackguard

It only once mentions pronouncing the k, and the first pronunciation is with the g, I don't think I've ever heard anyone BUT the people at my D&D group pronounce it with a k.

But thank you for showing me both are correct. That will help stop me from cringing every time I hear my party say blackguard.

[jguy]

I have always read it and said it as Black-Guard. It makes sense to me.

[Urpriest]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blackguard

It only once mentions pronouncing the k, and the first pronunciation is with the g, I don't think I've ever heard anyone BUT the people at my D&D group pronounce it with a k.

I've also seen the version you're describing spelled blaggard, and applied primarily as a British insult, rather than a dark knight whose name is a play on a British insult.

[Lhurgyof]

I've also seen the version you're describing spelled blaggard, and applied primarily as a British insult, rather than a dark knight whose name is a play on a British insult.

They've spelled it blaggard before, too? Language sure is an interesting thing.

[Heliomance]

i have the opportunity to play a grey guard in a gestalt game. level 12.

I was planning on gestalting a paladin/cleric, then leaving paladin for grey guard, and keeping the cleric steady through the level progressions. It's more for flavor than optimizing, to work into the DM's world.

How does the GG spellcasting advancement work within gestalt? I would assume that essentially, i advance my 'former paladin' class/side with the spellcasting advancement of the GG. However, the words in the class features imply that i can choose which of the two divine caster classes I want to advance each time i get the chance to advance. So, can i somehow advance cleric through the GG feature, at the same time i am advancing it via gestalt level?

That seems broken, obviously, since Gestalt is semi-broken anyway. otherwise, i could end up with a 12th level PC able to cast as a 15th or something.

Second question, is favored soul a better gestalt than cleric? Or is there a better cleric choice, perhaps cloistered cleric? if so, why? pros/cons?

Yes, you can apply Grey Guard advancement to your Cleric casting. No, you can't do it at the same time as you're advancing it through Cleric. You can't get double-speed spell progression, that would be silly.

And no, gestalt is not broken. It's inherently higher powered than a normal game, but as the rules specifically say not to use it unless everyone is using it, everyone is at the same benchmark.

[Greenish]

Second question, is favored soul a better gestalt than cleric? Or is there a better cleric choice, perhaps cloistered cleric? if so, why? pros/cons?

Cloistered cleric is an excellent option, since you don't really lose anything (you'd get the BAB, HD and Fort saves from paladin side anyway), and it gives you the sweet, delicious skillpoints. Knowledge Domain or Devotion aren't bad either.

Favoured Soul would allow some Cha synergy, but you'd be trading way better casting, domains and Turn Undead for a boost in saves. Not so hot.

[Kylarra]

And no, gestalt is not broken. It's inherently higher powered than a normal game, but as the rules specifically say not to use it unless everyone is using it, everyone is at the same benchmark.

To be fair, a system that increases the power of an already broken system is definitely broken, so in a sense, gestalt is inherently broken, but only because 3.X is inherently broken.

[Duke of URL]

And no, gestalt is not broken. It's inherently higher powered than a normal game, but as the rules specifically say not to use it unless everyone is using it, everyone is at the same benchmark.

Unfortunately, it's also loosely enough defined that it's quite exploitable. A "good" gestalt game has a DM that tightens the rules a fair bit to close the loopholes and take into account things that gestalt doesn't cover (LA, bloodlines, etc.)

[Heliomance]

To be fair, a system that increases the power of an already broken system is definitely broken, so in a sense, gestalt is inherently broken, but only because 3.X is inherently broken.

No, D&D is not broken because the power level is too high. Exalted, Risus and Scion, to name but a few, have far higher power levels. D&D is broken because the power level is inconsistent, and gestalt doesn't exacerbate that much. A bit, but not much.

[Kylarra]

No, D&D is not broken because the power level is too high. Exalted, Risus and Scion, to name but a few, have far higher power levels. D&D is broken because the power level is inconsistent, and gestalt doesn't exacerbate that much. A bit, but not much.

I never said D&D was broken because the power level was too high. I said gestalt raises the power level of an already broken system. Broken system + not adjusting the brokenness = still broken.

Gestalt actually exacerbates the brokenness quite a bit, creating a far greater power divide if you don't know what you're doing, farther than the normal 3.X power skew. So in a sense, the potential brokenness of the system is quite a bit higher with gestalt. Houserules and op-fu can, of course, mitigate it, but that's neither here nor there.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would stick with cleric, but I would dip Favored Soul on the pali side so that greyguard can advance that casting in place of paladin casting. A few spontanious spells to throw around won't hurt.

Otherwise consider going the PrC pali from a base of Favored soul. That will get you some paladin goodies and favored soul casting.