[3.5] Changeling Bear Warrior

[had3l]

I was thinking of making a Changeling, Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Fist of the Forest 2 / Warshaper 4 / Bear Warrior 10

Now, my question is, can I use disguise self while in bear form? (Or not, since it is during a rage? Can you use supernatural abilities during a rage?)

Assuming I can use disguise, do I change the Bear's form (meaning I have to stay large, etc) or can I make the Bear look like a human?

Can I use the Changeling's ability to give my Bear form opposable thumbs and therefore allow me to use a Large weapon?

[Dr.Epic]

If you can get away with this, then you could very well go from bear to green giant. I could make the Incredible Hulk. YES! Thank you for this brilliant discovery!

[Farlion]

Can I use the Changeling's ability to give my Bear form opposable thumbs and therefore allow me to use a Large weapon?

I thought that was the point of adding Warshaper to the build. You can shape your limbs as you like, to wield weapons.

Cheers,
Farlion

[HunterOfJello]

No. You cannot.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseself.htm

Being a Changeling means you can use Minor Shape Change at-will. Minor Shape Change functions exactly like the Disguise Self spell except that it isn't an illusion, the changeling modifies their form slightly.


As per the spell you could change yourself to look like a larger bear, smaller bear, or a bear of a different color. However, you could not change your body type.

Your DM might allow you to look like another similar sized animal of similar shape like a lion, a bison or a moose but that would be about the furthest extent of the ability.

[Dr.Epic]

No. You cannot.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseself.htm

What about my Hulk comment?

[had3l]

No. You cannot.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseself.htm

Being a Changeling means you can use Minor Shape Change at-will. Minor Shape Change functions exactly like the Disguise Self spell except that it isn't an illusion, the changeling modifies their form slightly.


As per the spell you could change yourself to look like a larger bear, smaller bear, or a bear of a different color. However, you could not change your body type.

Your DM might allow you to look like another similar sized animal of similar shape like a lion, a bison or a moose but that would be about the furthest extent of the ability.

Alright, but I can use the Warshaper's Morphic Weapon ability to use a Large Greataxe while in bear form for example?

Also, help me with the following, here is what the Bear Warrior description says:

Bear Form (Su): A bear warrior can transform into a bear
(similar to the polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy. His
only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a
bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or
frenzy, and the bear warrior returns to his own form once
the rage or frenzy ends.

So supposedly you can become a bear whenever you can rage, and the limit per day of becoming a bear is decided by how many rages you have. However, then under the forms he can turn into, the description is as follows:

Any bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once
per day. While in black bear form, he gains a +8 bonus to
Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a +4 bonus to Constitu-
tion.

So wait, is it "His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage" or "bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once per day"?

[had3l]

That's what I get for being lazy and not checking the errata

Page 16: Bear Warrior [[added 8/1/05]]
Whenever a bear warrior enters a rage or frenzy, he can
choose to assume bear form (similar to the polymorph
spell). He must remain in bear form until the end of his
rage or frenzy. When his rage or frenzy ends, the bear
warrior immediately returns to his own form.
The number of times a bear warrior can assume bear
form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or
frenzy. Ignore the conflicting limitations specified in the
third, fourth, and fifth paragraphs of the bear form
description.

[Project_Mayhem]

I like the idea of running into a building as one bear and coming out as another though

[Benly]

Alright, but I can use the Warshaper's Morphic Weapon ability to use a Large Greataxe while in bear form for example?

No. Morphic Weapon lets you grow natural weapons or improve existing ones. It does not let you sprout extra non-weapon limbs or appendages - no bonus hands, wings, extra eyes, etc.

[had3l]

No. Morphic Weapon lets you grow natural weapons or improve existing ones. It does not let you sprout extra non-weapon limbs or appendages - no bonus hands, wings, extra eyes, etc.

Sure, but I'm not talking about having two claws, a bite and then extra appendages for a weapon. I just want to slightly change the bear's existing claws into something that would be able to hold a greataxe.

[had3l]

No. You cannot.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseself.htm

Being a Changeling means you can use Minor Shape Change at-will. Minor Shape Change functions exactly like the Disguise Self spell except that it isn't an illusion, the changeling modifies their form slightly.


As per the spell you could change yourself to look like a larger bear, smaller bear, or a bear of a different color. However, you could not change your body type.

Your DM might allow you to look like another similar sized animal of similar shape like a lion, a bison or a moose but that would be about the furthest extent of the ability.

That is the thing though, isn't changing into a lion more of a change than just extending the claws of the bear a little bit so that they can hold weapons? A bear can stand upright already, it is just that his claws can't really hold things very well (although in nature shows you can see them holding things like salmon and bee hives). Is holding a weapon too much of a stretch when you have two abilities (minor shape change and morphic weapons) that could potentially change their shape?

[Starbuck_II]

That is the thing though, isn't changing into a lion more of a change than just extending the claws of the bear a little bit so that they can hold weapons? A bear can stand upright already, it is just that his claws can't really hold things very well (although in nature shows you can see them holding things like salmon and bee hives). Is holding a weapon too much of a stretch when you have two abilities (minor shape change and morphic weapons) that could potentially change their shape?

No, extending a claw won't help. But you could turn the brown bear into a panda (panda do have an opposable wrist, yes they have a thumbs benefit by using wrist).

[had3l]

No, extending a claw won't help. But you could turn the brown bear into a panda (panda do have an opposable wrist, yes they have a thumbs benefit by using wrist).

Ok, so I can't do it with chageling, but everyone agrees that Warshaper will let me shape my limbs to hold weapons though?

[Person_Man]

I was thinking of making a Changeling, Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Fist of the Forest 2 / Warshaper 4 / Bear Warrior 10

That's a pretty weak builid.

• Uncanny Dodge is only situationally useful, and can be purchased with 1 Feat (Shape Soulmeld - Impulse Boots). Thus it's usually not worth taking the second level of Barbarian.
• Fighter dip is useful for low level builds, but in the long run it's not as useful as levels of most other classes.
• Morphic Healing (Fast Healing 1) is pretty meaningless in combat unless augmented by the Theraputic Mantle soulmeld. Out of combat it basically just saves you from having to buy a few healing belts or wands. Thus it's usually not worth taking the 4th level of Warshaper.
• Bear Warrior levels 2-4 and 6-9 are mostly dead. You're much better off with levels of another PrC instead, like Frostrager, Frenzied Berserker, Totem Rager, etc.
• You can accomplish better results with generic Druid 20 (although that can be said for most builds - this build is specifically about turning into a Bear - which is mechanically very similar to Wildshape - just weaker).

What are your build goals anyway?

Now, my question is, can I use disguise self while in bear form? (Or not, since it is during a rage? Can you use supernatural abilities during a rage?)

Nope. As noted by others, you can disguise yourself as different bears.

Can I use the Changeling's ability to give my Bear form opposable thumbs and therefore allow me to use a Large weapon?

Nope. There's is some weird 3.0 material way of doing this (Gloves of Man from Savage Species, IIRC), but it can't be done with Changeling.

Ok, so I can't do it with chageling, but everyone agrees that Warshaper will let me shape my limbs to hold weapons though?

No. Warshaper lets you improve the size bonus for your natural attacks and add new ones (horns, tentacles, etc). It does not let you shape your limbs to hold weapons. And even adding new natural weapons is subject to DM discretion, because theoretically you could add an infinite number of tentacles.

[comicshorse]

[*]Morphic Healing (Fast Healing 1) is pretty meaningless in combat unless augmented by the Theraputic Mantle soulmeld. Out of combat it basically just saves you from having to buy a few healing belts or wands. Thus it's usually not worth taking the 4th level of Warshaper.

Just for the record Warshaper gives you Fast Healing 2

[Benly]

Sure, but I'm not talking about having two claws, a bite and then extra appendages for a weapon. I just want to slightly change the bear's existing claws into something that would be able to hold a greataxe.

Then you're going to have to use a power that does something other than add natural weapons, because that's all that Morphic Weaponry does.

(and for the record, yes, pandas can grip things. No, they can't wield weapons designed for humans in any kind of useful manner. Neither can gorillas if they want to be able to walk. Try swordfighting someone while holding a sword in one of those extendo-hand things to see just how useful just being able to grip something is.)

[Starbuck_II]

Then you're going to have to use a power that does something other than add natural weapons, because that's all that Morphic Weaponry does.

(and for the record, yes, pandas can grip things. No, they can't wield weapons designed for humans in any kind of useful manner. Neither can gorillas if they want to be able to walk. Try swordfighting someone while holding a sword in one of those extendo-hand things to see just how useful just being able to grip something is.)

Maybe someone should attempt to train a panda to use a sword in a scientific study. If they are successful than we will know for sure.

[Coidzor]

And would have the world's first samurai panda.

[grarrrg]

*cough cough*
Needs MOAR BEAR!!

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you want to wield weapons while in animal form there is a modification (don't remember if it is magical) in Lord of Madness in the Beholder chapter

[comicshorse]

If you want to wield weapons while in animal form there is a modification (don't remember if it is magical) in Lord of Madness in the Beholder chapter

Yup, Mouthpick weapon ( +1 equivalent)

[Dusk Eclipse]

yep that is the one, though I found stupi it is considered magical, IIRC it is just a special handle... no so much magic there IMO

[Dr.Epic]

Still wondering about my Hulk question.

[Coidzor]

Yup, Mouthpick weapon ( +1 equivalent)

Wow. It's even better than Skillful(though more limited in use).

Definitely get something exotic with the mouthpick since it gives free proficiency with it.

And here I had thought they were a type of weapon rather than an enhancement.

[The Rabbler]

I now have an image of a bear clawing people, punching people, and smacking them with a spiked chain kusari-gama (damn 2-hand weapons) wielded in the mouth. the image is glorious.