help to end a debate

[Itous]

hi all, i am here before you today to ask for help with a debate.

the debate is about items made from dragon materials such as dragon hide.

heres basicly the quick version

my DM says you cannot make ANYTHING with dragonhide nor can you make it masterworked without a feat from the draconomicon called "dragoncrafter"

i personally think this is wrong due to the DMG saying "you can use a craft armorsmith check to make masterworked dragon armor"


now in my opinion if you make an armorsmith check, make some master worked armor, you can then get it enchanted with magical stuff......... however if you step into an anti magic field those spells and buffs and stuff you have enchanted wear off


DRAGONCRAFTER

basicly lets you make it as a mundane or masterworked items, however you can put other magical properties onto it, so you can take your but dragoncrafter allows you to make it for

1) normal price instead of double price
2) is not effected by anti magic field
so yes if you step into an anti magic field and you made your own armor with the dragoncrafter feat you would keep your bonuses and resistances


and as i said he is saying you cannot make ANYTHING with dragon materials unless you have the dragoncrafter feat... but to me the dragoncrafter feat only allows you to make it in a diffrent way to how its normally done.


can someone please help me out with this because i think if my DM is right that that is the most stupid idea i have ever seen or heard in my entire life and it contradicts the basic rules and simply should not be there.

[drack]

If you were to ask me I would say that you could smith it with armor smithing, but I haven't used the draconomicon before, but if I where to i would make them both double the price such that you don't have two base market prices for the same good. Regardless if he allows you to smith any dragon-skin anything it is masterwork by default.

[137beth]

I agree with you, but the DM does get the final say...unless the other player's are on your side, in which case the DM may have to concede.

[Malbordeus]

you can make things from dragon hide... but they have no special abilities. other than being wearable by a druid. and you need a really significantly sized dragon to be able to get enough undamaged scales to make anything.

i think it was +1 sc for light, +2 for medium, +3 for heavy armour? so you'd need to defeat a collosal? (20'x20' base. whatever that works out as) for the materials to make a suit of heavy dragonhide armour... so not worth it.

[GodGoblin]

When my group killed a dragon we stripped it bare and made loads of things. To make masterwork Dragon Hide fullplate we actually gave it to a leather worker because it would need stiching rather than beating with a hammer.

So no you wouldnt need that feat, it improves the items you can make but you can still do it.

[Kumori]

Page 116 of the Draconomicon goes into detail on what Dragoncraft items are, but if you look at the section right before that, you'll see that Dragonhide has a separate section, all to itself. While it doesn't explicitly say it, to me that separation is enough to show that making Dragonhide armor does not require the ability make Dragoncraft items.

[Fable Wright]

Alright: To put it simply, you may craft dragonhide armor, or masterwork dragonhide armor, without the dragoncrafter feat. However, if you do not possess the dragoncrafter feat, the armor or weapons gain no special abilities. It may cost more or less than the original armor, but it can be worked without the dragoncrafter feat.

[Roderick_BR]

The Dungeon Master Guide says that leather armor made of dragon hide just allows it to be master work without extra costs/checks.
That's core. Your DM may ask different skills to make some magic items based on that book, so, technically, you two are correct, only in different areas.

[bloodtide]

I can help end the debate.

Page 115 of the Draconomicon says ''Armorsmiths can work with dragon hides to produce masterwork armor and shields for the normal cost(See DMG pg.283). The armor created has no special properties other then it is masterwork.

And then you could make normal magical armor out of your dragonhide armor.


But to do the special stuff, you need the Dragoncraft feat.

[bloodtide]

[Empty] Please Delete

[ericgrau]

The issue seems pretty clear cut. The DMG says an armorsmith can do it., that the armor is masterwork, it gives no mention of any additional requirements neither in that section nor anywhere in any of the 3 core books and you should not require any other books to follow the existing rules. Other books only add new rules and options, they do not usually replace existing rules unless they say they're errata or they say that the new rules are optional. Even though it's not necessary to make it official, the new book defers to the DMG as a matter of clarification.

This isn't even a debate, so if your DM still isn't convinced after you show him all that then he disregarded the rule and next you need to find out why. He simply didn't know the rule or misread it? A personal preference he's trying to justify by "interpreting" the rules the way he wants? He knows the rule but is banning it? Etc. Then you can decide how to best communicate with him and your fellow PCs to get a solution.