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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Wish: How should i demand one?

    Hi! I firstly need to say my English is not that well but hope you can understand me.

    I'm playin in a long-term FR campaign and my character has lots of plans for future. He is just level 15 atm, but he can cast 9th level divine and 7th level arcane spells. (Thanks to Ur-Priest) (House Rule: You can cast arcane spells that 2 levels below than your max divine spell level thats how can i cast 7th level arcane spells)

    Now i have 5 efreet-fingernails with me and i'm thinking about casting a simulacrum spell with each one. So that will grant me 5 efreeti with 3 wishes per day.

    Everything seems ok until that part but... How should i "wish" the thing that i want? I'm thinking about +5 ability boost on every single score but it might be dangerous said my DM. (He threated me with terrible things actually lol)

    SRD says:

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    Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.


    My wish is in limits of spell but i still must carefully word it. So how can wish this without any potential risks?
    "I wish i had +1 inherit bonus on my wis score" will not work because its about game mechanics not role play. Sentences in any language will be accepted but i mostly prefer English (We can speak English in game) or if possible Turkish.
    Last edited by Mordrigar; 2010-09-23 at 08:39 AM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    ...the DM threatened terrible things, just stop it and go do something else.

    No matter how RAW legal you make your position, he is the DM and can screw you over if he doesn't like it.
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    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
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    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
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    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
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    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    I think it's unclear whether the simulacrums would even be able to cast wish. Look at the spell description:

    It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD).
    Would an efreeti with only half HD still have all the SLAs? That's up to your DM. Personally I'd give them diminished powers, the same as a simulacrum of a wizard.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    First off, be disambiguous, if the DM can interpret your wish wrong, he will.
    Secondly, start with small things, then go to slightly bigger so you know where the DM draws the line.
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    By Asking very nicely and being very exacting.
    Even then you have to hope that your DM doesnt dislike you in any small way.
    Thankyou to NEOPhyte for the Techpriest Engiseer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    take this virtual +1.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    "I wish to gain great wisdom" is a pretty safe bet. The worst that could happen is that you get bludgeoned with the knowledge of the Great Old Ones, but your Will save should be through the roof, so it's not such a big deal.

    Do you have allies? Test it on them first. That way, the DM might let it slide (since there's no party imbalance) and if he doesn't, it's not you who gets a boot to the head.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Talk to your DM OOG first. See what he thinks is and isn't reasonable, and why. You run much less risk of bludgeoning that way.

    Edit: There's always wishing for tomes...
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2010-09-23 at 01:15 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander View Post
    I think it's unclear whether the simulacrums would even be able to cast wish. Look at the spell description:



    Would an efreeti with only half HD still have all the SLAs? That's up to your DM. Personally I'd give them diminished powers, the same as a simulacrum of a wizard.
    Yup, Efreet would have Wish as normal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    "I wish to gain great wisdom" is a pretty safe bet. The worst that could happen is that you get bludgeoned with the knowledge of the Great Old Ones, but your Will save should be through the roof, so it's not such a big deal.

    Do you have allies? Test it on them first. That way, the DM might let it slide (since there's no party imbalance) and if he doesn't, it's not you who gets a boot to the head.
    I tried that one but he replied like that "Ok now you have a metal plate with GREAT WISDOM written on it."

    That was a great idea. I have allies and i'm gonna try on them. We have 12 players at the moment and most of them has 2 chararacters. We play those second ones as NPC's. I'll try on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Talk to your DM OOG first. See what he thinks is and isn't reasonable, and why. You run much less risk of bludgeoning that way.

    Edit: There's always wishing for tomes...
    He always says "extraordinary things will end up extraordinary. Nature of magic is far from normality"

    And tomes... The tome that gives you +5 ability boost costs like 130.000 gp single wish is not able to do that but combining 6 of them might work.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    You could just wish for five different +1 Tomes; their bonuses stack until they reach +5 (that's for each score).

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvenblade View Post
    You could just wish for five different +1 Tomes; their bonuses stack until they reach +5 (that's for each score).
    Hmm i thought same named bonuses are generally not stack but i will try for this.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    You do not need simulacrum. Your character should be capable of casting planar binding or even gate to aquire wishes.

    However, regardless of how the wish is obtained, your DM is making it clear that the wording of the wish is going to be exploited in a negative way.

    Don't wish for 'great strength.' Your character might just be transformed into an Ogre or Giant. Strong, but stupid. Even worse, you could be tranformed into an ant or similar insect. A weak creature with a high proportional strength.

    That is just an example of how the wish might be exploited. If your DM is going to make an example of your character to other players, there is not much you can do about it.

    A good example of a wish might be...

    "I wish for the knowledge, wisdom and experience of age, but to retain the vitality of youth."

    That might give a bonus to your mental attributes (Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma), but not penalise your physical attributes. Much like the effect of aging, but without the loss of Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. It may take several uses of this same wish to gain the bonus to every one of your mental attributes as wish can only improve an attribute by +1.

    Hope this helps.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Sadly, if your making simulacrums of efreeti and receiving wishes from them is 'not fair' in the eyes of the DM, he'll find a way to ruin every plan you can concieve. Better speak to your DM first, OOC. Thinking about it;

    - Be selfless. Point out that with your plan, your barbarian party member will have greater muscles, the cleric will have the phyla.. phylac... religious thingamagic of faithfullness and will have more uses of turn undead, etc. If the DM thinks the whole party will be more powerful all at once, he'll be more generous.

    - Directly ask the limit. Just ask 'How much can we get with this plan?' OOCly. He'll tell the limit that he thinks that won't break his game.

    - Even if the DM plays perfectly within the rules and boundaries of the game, there may be several repercussions. Do not argue that what you do is within the realms of what 'wish' can do and he should allow it. Or, say, you'll be messing with the epic great great sultan god of the efreets - Abuzer who has 20 levels of wizard and 20 levels of cleric AND 20 levels of unarmed swordsage, also who has heard someone plays with the perfect image of the efreets and has nothing better to do but squash a few poor adventurers.

    - Just think, 'What would I do?'. Imagine it was your own game and get in the DM's shoes. One of the players threatens all the future encounters, plots and quests with his 'free wish 15 times per day' machine. I would be disappointed. Be understanding and limit it yourself as if it was your game, openly declaring that you'll limit the use but you'll have some shinies before you stop using this method. "My character would not know the most a wish can give is more than +2, so I'll ask +2 inherent boni to all stats for me and all party members, then decide I milked the wishes the most I could and send the simulacrums to <allies in a long distance> so they can use them." In other words, gimp it yourself before the DM can.

    And... as the answer; normally just saying "I wish I was stronger/ more dexterious/more endurant/cleverer/wiser/charismatic - Keşke daha güçlü/çevik/dayanıklı/akıllı/bilge/yahışıklı olsaydım." would be a wish within the limits given and would deserve a perfect completion and using this wish 30 times would give you the inherent +5 on all stats, RAW.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by WinWin View Post
    You do not need simulacrum. Your character should be capable of casting planar binding or even gate to aquire wishes.

    However, regardless of how the wish is obtained, your DM is making it clear that the wording of the wish is going to be exploited in a negative way.

    Don't wish for 'great strength.' Your character might just be transformed into an Ogre or Giant. Strong, but stupid. Even worse, you could be tranformed into an ant or similar insect. A weak creature with a high proportional strength.

    That is just an example of how the wish might be exploited. If your DM is going to make an example of your character to other players, there is not much you can do about it.

    A good example of a wish might be...

    "I wish for the knowledge, wisdom and experience of age, but to retain the vitality of youth."

    That might give a bonus to your mental attributes (Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma), but not penalise your physical attributes. Much like the effect of aging, but without the loss of Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. It may take several uses of this same wish to gain the bonus to every one of your mental attributes as wish can only improve an attribute by +1.

    Hope this helps.
    I firstly need to say thanks everyone that are trying to help.

    Now, i prefer simulacri, beacuse conjuring an Efreet may lead the worst effects. Because of Efreeti's nature, they thinks and acts are evil. So any wish that demanded from them might not work correctly. And i didn't choose gate (Solar) because of its 1000 xp penalty on casting. After all i have 5 efreet fingers already. Anyway...

    And yes, wishing for great strength is not wise. As you write, it might end up bad. On the other hand wishing for "knowledge, wisdom and experience of age, but to retain the vitality of youth" sounds good but i could find myself under effects of Temporal Stasis spell somehow.

    By the way what do you think of this one:
    "I wish i was wise as Elminster Aumar" (or another high-stat-guy like Szass Tam)

    EDIT:


    Quote Originally Posted by cenghiz View Post
    Sadly, if your making simulacrums of efreeti and receiving wishes from them is 'not fair' in the eyes of the DM, he'll find a way to ruin every plan you can concieve. Better speak to your DM first, OOC. Thinking about it;

    - Be selfless. Point out that with your plan, your barbarian party member will have greater muscles, the cleric will have the phyla.. phylac... religious thingamagic of faithfullness and will have more uses of turn undead, etc. If the DM thinks the whole party will be more powerful all at once, he'll be more generous.

    - Directly ask the limit. Just ask 'How much can we get with this plan?' OOCly. He'll tell the limit that he thinks that won't break his game.

    - Even if the DM plays perfectly within the rules and boundaries of the game, there may be several repercussions. Do not argue that what you do is within the realms of what 'wish' can do and he should allow it. Or, say, you'll be messing with the epic great great sultan god of the efreets - Abuzer who has 20 levels of wizard and 20 levels of cleric AND 20 levels of unarmed swordsage, also who has heard someone plays with the perfect image of the efreets and has nothing better to do but squash a few poor adventurers.

    - Just think, 'What would I do?'. Imagine it was your own game and get in the DM's shoes. One of the players threatens all the future encounters, plots and quests with his 'free wish 15 times per day' machine. I would be disappointed. Be understanding and limit it yourself as if it was your game, openly declaring that you'll limit the use but you'll have some shinies before you stop using this method. "My character would not know the most a wish can give is more than +2, so I'll ask +2 inherent boni to all stats for me and all party members, then decide I milked the wishes the most I could and send the simulacrums to <allies in a long distance> so they can use them." In other words, gimp it yourself before the DM can.

    And... as the answer; normally just saying "I wish I was stronger/ more dexterious/more endurant/cleverer/wiser/charismatic - Keşke daha güçlü/çevik/dayanıklı/akıllı/bilge/yahışıklı olsaydım." would be a wish within the limits given and would deserve a perfect completion and using this wish 30 times would give you the inherent +5 on all stats, RAW.

    I want this ability boosts because my character is slightly lacking of power. He is Paladin 1 / Wizard 4 and Ur Priest 10 but has low ac, and low survive skills (spot, listen etc.) He is good at casting but if catched by ambush, he loses this advantage too. This is why i'm looking for wish. And bbout the limit thing, he says "wish" and "miracle" are extraordinary spells and they will end up with extraordinary things. Only limit is my command word.

    And believe me, "even" 15 free wishes won't be enough for breaking our game. Because our mentality is "If you can think that with your intelligence, others can think too" So that means if i can have 15 free wishes everyday with my own -20- int, Lord Szass Tam can have ultra-powerful 30 wishes or something equal.

    And my only problem lies there... I don't know the "safe limits" of spell. I asked Khelben Blackstaff how can i have perfect wish (Chosen of mystra -High Leveled spellcaster guy-) and he replied if i had known it would be already casted.
    Last edited by Mordrigar; 2010-09-24 at 01:52 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Looking up the Tomes, they come in different versions that range from +1 to +5. So wish for the +5 versions, using 5 wishes per tome that you desire.

    So, something like "I wish for a normal, uncursed Tome of Clear Thought of the version that provides the greatest increase in my intelligence that it is theoretically possible for a caster to make."

    Edit: Failure to check for ninja's. That's what I get for posting at 3am.
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2010-09-24 at 01:57 AM.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    "I wish i was wise as Elminster Aumar"

    When Elminster was 2 years old, he ate his own boogers. You receive an -10 inherent penalty to your wisdom.

    Try again?

    "I wish I was as wise as Elminster Aumar in his current age."

    The easiest way for the cosmos to do it was making you actually Elminster. You suddenly become a perfect clone of Elminster and because of the clone spell's limitations you will only animate when Elminster dies, even then you'll animate as Elminster, not yourself. Give me your character sheet.

    Try again?

    "I wish I was as wise as Elminster is right now, while retaining my own body and soul."

    Wisdom is partly the collection of memories and past mistakes. You now remember everything that Elminster has experienced. Added to your own wisdom and your personal understanding, the wish works even better because you experienced the lives of two and gained unbelieveable understanding. As your start to experience what Elminster experienced, you receive +25 inherent bonus to wisdom and 10 levels of wizard, for now.

    "YEAH!"

    Uhm.. err.. you read 'Elminster in Hell', right? As your wisdom slowly increases with the experience you receive from Elminster. You feel all the torments. Make a will save, target 97. If you fail with your +25 inherent bonus you just received to your wisdom, for now, you go crazy. You failed? Sad.. Give me your character sheet.

    Try again?

    "I wish <long wall of text that looks like a legal document.>"

    It's not within the limits of wish. It's only a partial completion, I decide. You gain +1 inherent bonus to your wisdom. By the way, YOU'LL PAY FOR IT! 300 aboleths suddenly rise from the body of water beside you. I know it's unbelieveable but all have wizard robes, strangely attached to their bodies. Roll for initiative.

    ..... If the DM doesn't want you to gain that bonus, your every wish will be corrupted.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    All evil creatures, but efreeti in particular are notorious for twisting wishes against the wisher -- so be extra careful. Wish conservatively.

    Also, I'd take into account how you acquired these fingernails. Did you just happen to run into an efreet an cut its fingernails off of its corpse when it died, or did you seek them out on your own initiative? Or were they deliberately planted by the DM as loot so you could try something like this? If it wasn't the latter, I'd say just give up. If the DM did give you these nails with the intention that you'd use them, then keep trying, cautiously.

    Here's my advice:

    * The longer your wish is, even if it consists of clauses intended to make things safer, the greater the chances are that the DM will able to find some loophole or item to misinterpret.

    * With the above caveat in mind, your wish should be as specific as possible.

    * Burn one or maybe two wishes on something along the lines of, "I wish for my next several wishes to benefit me in a manner that respects the spirit and intent of my wishes."

    * You may wish to charm the simulacrum so that it is not only forced to be obedient to you, but actually wants to help you (it's still a magical compulsion, and the genie may not be able to alter the nature of its wish-granting capabilities even if it wants to -- but it's still worth a shot).

    * Keep in mind that your DM might be hesitant to let you squeeze any useful wish out of the things, because they are essentially permanent vending machines. Maybe if you let provide some mechanism for the genies to expire, you'll actually get something out of them.

    For example, you might try telling one something like this: "After granting my next wish, I order you to plane shift to the Elemental Plane of Fire, and remain there forever" or "I order you to grant my next wish in a manner that prevents you from ever granting another wish, ever again."

    This is risky and it may lose you your efreet with no real gain, but it seems like you may have to try a radical approach if you want a chance of getting anything useful out of them.
    Last edited by Tukka; 2010-09-24 at 02:16 AM.

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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Unless your wish is right within the RAW of the spell description don't bother using it for bonuses. I find if you go outside RAW you'll usually only get away with it if you use it for stuff that is more story based. Like wishing for a wizard's tower.

    Then again I can see why DM's do it a lot of the time. Think about it a wish that gave you a +5 bonus to all stats would basically be the same as wishing for over 800k in gold. More than what the standard level 20 campaign characters start with. Stop trying to snap his game balance in two, and maybe he'll stop being a jerk genie.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tukka View Post
    All evil creatures, but efreeti in particular are notorious for twisting wishes against the wisher -- so be extra careful. Wish conservatively.

    Also, I'd take into account how you acquired these fingernails. Did you just happen to run into an efreet an cut its fingernails off of its corpse when it died, or did you seek them out on your own initiative? Or were they deliberately planted by the DM as loot so you could try something like this? If it wasn't the latter, I'd say just give up. If the DM did give you these nails with the intention that you'd use them, then keep trying, cautiously.

    Here's my advice:

    * The longer your wish is, even if it consists of clauses intended to make things safer, the greater the chances are that the DM will able to find some loophole or item to misinterpret.

    * With the above caveat in mind, your wish should be as specific as possible.

    * Burn one or maybe two wishes on something along the lines of, "I wish for my next several wishes to benefit me in a manner that respects the spirit and intent of my wishes."

    * You may wish to charm the simulacrum so that it is not only forced to be obedient to you, but actually wants to help you.

    * Keep in mind that your DM might be hesitant to let you squeeze any useful wish out of the things, because they are essentially permanent vending machines. Maybe if you let provide some mechanism for the genies to expire, you'll actually get something out of them.

    For example, you might try telling one something like this: "After granting my next wish, I order you to plane shift to the Elemental Plane of Fire, and remain there forever" or "I order you to grant my next wish in a manner that prevents you from ever granting another wish, ever again."

    This is risky and it may lose you your efreet with no real gain, but it seems like you may have to try a radical approach if you want a chance of getting anything useful out of them.
    Efreeti that created by simulacrum, will be my eternal servants and they will serve me with their own wish. So there is nothing wrong with that part. And that fingernails... I called an Efreet with Planar Ally spell and talked with it. And just asked him "Could you give me your hair, fingernail or something like that?" he replied "Why do you want those? Do you want me to call again?" and i said "Those are just needed me for a spell. And this spell won't hurt you i swear." after this efreet gave his fingernails to me and went to his home again. I mean he "gifted" me them without anything in exchange of.

    Now i'm thinking about a bargain with my DM, out of game. In exchange of my ability boost wishes i'll destroy all simulacrum. Maybe he can accept this and let me have the thing that i want.
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordrigar View Post
    Efreeti that created by simulacrum, will be my eternal servants and they will serve me with their own wish. So there is nothing wrong with that part. And that fingernails... I called an Efreet with Planar Ally spell and talked with it. And just asked him "Could you give me your hair, fingernail or something like that?" he replied "Why do you want those? Do you want me to call again?" and i said "Those are just needed me for a spell. And this spell won't hurt you i swear." after this efreet gave his fingernails to me and went to his home again. I mean he "gifted" me them without anything in exchange of.

    Now i'm thinking about a bargain with my DM, out of game. In exchange of my ability boost wishes i'll destroy all simulacrum. Maybe he can accept this and let me have the thing that i want.
    I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. If your DM has any sense, he won't let your simulacra cast Wish, because that would not in any way be good for the game. It wouldn't improve the fun for any player but you. It makes no sense internally to the game world either; if it's possible for a wizard to do this using known spells, why haven't they all done it and broken the world already?

    You're talking as if you have some power to make the DM do things he doesn't want to, and to coerce him to cut a deal with you. You don't. No matter how you choose to read the rules, he can just say "it doesn't work that way." And if he does so, please don't whine, either here or to him, that he's abusing his role as DM. He's not; he's just showing common sense and running the game in a sane way.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Efreeti that created by simulacrum, will be my eternal servants and they will serve me with their own wish. So there is nothing wrong with that part.
    I don't see anything in the simulacrum spell description that indicates the disposition of the beings you create, just that they are "under your absolute command." It's still probably an evil creature that doesn't particularly care to enslaved, so charming it could theoretically help your cause. (Of course, if the DM has depicted the efreeti as being friendly to you already, it probably won't -- although they could just be acting.)

    As for your method of getting the fingernails, yeah, I probably would not be inclined to allow you to benefit much (if at all) from your shenanigans if I were the DM. If you could squeeze much benefit out utilizing those sorts of tricks, then you could try doing the same thing again later -- and what's more, other people in the world would have probably figured out what you just figured out, and be doing it all the time. It sort of breaks the world, unless it was constructed with the "wish economy" in mind.
    Last edited by Tukka; 2010-09-24 at 02:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tukka View Post
    I don't see anything in the simulacrum spell description that indicates the disposition of the beings you create, just that they are "under your absolute command." It's still probably an evil creature that doesn't particularly care to enslaved, so charming it could theoretically help your cause. (Of course, if the DM has depicted the efreeti as being friendly to you already, it probably won't -- although they could just be acting.)

    As for your method of getting the fingernails, yeah, I probably would not be inclined to allow you to benefit much (if at all) from your shenanigans if I were the DM. If you could squeeze much benefit out utilizing those sorts of tricks, then you could try doing the same thing again later -- and what's more, other people in the world would have probably figured out what you just figured out, and be doing it all the time. It sort of breaks the world, unless it was constructed with the "wish economy" in mind.
    I don't think that my simulacri will create me a problem. At least my DM said Wishing from those Efreeti will work same as casting wish from a scroll. So this is not the problem for me.

    And as i said i just want this for "balance". My current character is the weakest link in the party and he is terribly in need of some kind of help. +5 ability boost won't break up the game. Since its the only think that i want. I will not use those Efreeti anymore if i get what i want. and also, if the cleric who has 45 AC, immune to death effects, +30 spot check bonus and ability of re-roll on failed checks doesn't break up the game my little +5 boost won't too.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    I don't think that my simulacri will create me a problem. At least my DM said Wishing from those Efreeti will work same as casting wish from a scroll. So this is not the problem for me.
    If he really meant that about it being like casting from a scroll, then I'd appeal to your DM to give you a break, and allow you to use the efreeti to work together to grant five consecutive wishes which will grant an instantaneous +5 inherent bonus to your wisdom, without further perversions of the wishes. If he's just dead-set against you getting that much of a bonus, bargain for a +4 or +3.

    RAW: "You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)"

    This implies that dangerous/non-literal wishes normally only result if you wish for something greater than the listed effects, when what you'd be wishing for is one of the listed effects. Giving you a slab of metal when you ask for greater wisdom is sort of like casting silent image and saying "I create an illusion of a stone wall between me and the orc" and the DM irrevocably ruling that the illusory wall is only six inches high -- it's technically a valid ruling, but still a bad one.

    Also, if your character is really that sore of a disadvantage compared to the rest of the group, maybe you could ask your DM if you could retrain or rebuild (there are rules for this in Player's Handbook II) so your level of optimization more closely matches that of the rest of the group, which could be both more helpful and satisfying that a flat +5 to wisdom. You could use your wishes to provide a path to the in-game artifact that lets you rebuild.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    ... wait... your the weak link in the party? your effectively an uber-cleric +other bonuses. how have you managed to be weaker than the rest of the party?

    second.

    your an ur-priest. summon creatures, steal their SLA's and cast the wishes yourself. calling a LE coutsider might be better than using the efreeti however, as the simulacrums are likely to be underpowered.
    Last edited by Malbordeus; 2010-09-24 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    "I wish to gain great wisdom" is a pretty safe bet.
    not quite safe...

    why efreet will actually wanna give you their wishes? especially the simulactrum.

    the best wish i can figure out, a wish without gray areas , & no chance of missunderstanding is:
    I wish there will be an increase in my inherent wisdom,immediately, without any personal effort or time limitation & with no other effects or side-effects.

    this will guarantee , it's not an item or spell effect, no unpleasant surprises, permanent. it will be in effect immediately without you need to do further blahblah.

    try it. if your DM finds a way to slip by, he must be a rly smart guy. My DM (again in FR, there must be the setting fault that DM's grow insane) made the same funy things to me, untill i made this wish..

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    GM just seems like he is grasping at straws to try to stop ya from doing something he put into motion already.

    Though i would probably give my GM a talking to if he said "sure you can do this to cast wish! Oh but i am going to screw with the RAW listed things that it does without normal consequence."

    If casting it from them was like casting it from scrolls as your GM said you wouldn't get screwed over for grabbing the +5 to your stats.

    Also lets take a look at Wish for those Tomes! (and other evil things)

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm
    [*] Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
    [*] Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

    These are the two bits we are looking at. Sure you are limited in the cost of a non magical item, but it lists no such limit associated with a magic item. You could wish for a +50 tome as easily as a +5 without any wish backfire according to (badly written) RAW

    Heck if you really really wanted to be a jerk you just wish for an item of at will wishes! Then boost everyone in the parties stats by +5
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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raendyn View Post
    I wish there will be an increase in my inherent wisdom,immediately, without any personal effort or time limitation & with no other effects or side-effects.
    Your wisdom increases to beyond deity levels. You now percieve the world as if you were on a higher plane of existence. Everything here seems futile and pointless. Your character cannot take any actions because he would rather sit and contemplate cosmic matters, everything else is trivial to him and death does not scare him in the slightest. Hand me your sheet.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Your wisdom increases to beyond deity levels. You now percieve the world as if you were on a higher plane of existence. Everything here seems futile and pointless. Your character cannot take any actions because he would rather sit and contemplate cosmic matters, everything else is trivial to him and death does not scare him in the slightest. Hand me your sheet.
    So basically he's Dr. Manhatten? Sorry but just sitting down and not doing anything is the exact opposite of what a high wisdom creature does. Sure he might not care about the minor stuff anymore, but high wisdom doesn't make you suicidal.

    Oh and go read Deities and Demigods, I promise you you could probably find a deity in there with a wisdom score lower than that if a max/mined cleric.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    I've read DD, it's a prime example of broken 3.0 fast healing and DR, and very un-optimized lvl 60 characters.

    The fluff text is representing an arbitrarily high Wisdom. He has mentally ascended and does not care for this world anymore, knowing that greater things are to be contemplated. I'ts called DM fiat and I'm just showing one way of screwing over even the best worded Wish. It took me 10 seconds to think of this answer, I'm sure if i have the span of several gaming sessions like the poster i can think of something even better.

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    As far as the power Wish has that shouldn't be twisted, you should go and read the spell's description. "+5 to everything" is way beyond its power, given you use a wish to get a single +1 to a stat (and getting it further up is complicated. You need 3 consecutive wishes for the same +3 to get a +3 to a stat).

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    Default Re: Wish: How should i demand one?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Looking up the Tomes, they come in different versions that range from +1 to +5. So wish for the +5 versions, using 5 wishes per tome that you desire.

    So, something like "I wish for a normal, uncursed Tome of Clear Thought of the version that provides the greatest increase in my intelligence that it is theoretically possible for a caster to make."

    Edit: Failure to check for ninja's. That's what I get for posting at 3am.
    A +5 tome is well outside the normal power of a wish spell so you are just asking for trouble there ^^

    A nice dm might only give you an absolutely nonmagical book called "Tome of Clear Thought" with wisdoms such as:
    Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.

    An evil dm might take all the groups gear and money and turn it into one +5 tome (if the groups gear is any good atleast)
    "yeah the wish needed extra arcane/divine energy to make a +5 tome"

    Or maybe it didn´t create the tome but it was teleported away from an Archmage who was just going to read it, near seconds after its arrival he does too and he is not very happy with the situation.

    If the dm threatened you with failure don´t do it, no matter how carefully you word it the dm will find a loophole to get you.
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2010-09-24 at 07:26 AM.

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