Ways to pierce concealment?

[WarKitty]

Are there any good ways to allow someone to pierce magical concealment that would be within the reach of a level 4 party? I'm primarily interested in the concealment granted by area of effect spells like Fog Cloud.

[Starbuck_II]

Are there any good ways to allow someone to pierce magical concealment? I'm primarily interested in the concealment granted by area of effect spells like Fog Cloud.

The feat Pierce Magic Concealment works I think.
That Cloud Cloak works vs Cloud spells.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050311a

[SurlySeraph]

True Strike does it, though you probably won't be able to cast it before every attack.

[Zaq]

The Crown bind of the Diadem of Purelight negates all concealment within its vicinity. (Unfortunately, it doesn't discriminate, so you won't get concealment either.) Requires 2 feats or a 2-level dip in Incarnate.

[WarKitty]

The Crown bind of the Diadem of Purelight negates all concealment within its vicinity. (Unfortunately, it doesn't discriminate, so you won't get concealment either.) Requires 2 feats or a 2-level dip in Incarnate.

That's not really useful, we need a way to use concealment spells without messing ourselves up.

[Pechvarry]

Level 6: Awesome Smiting Tactical feat. Probably not what you're looking for, as it's 2 levels away and only helps smite-happy party members.

[ericgrau]

Simplest way is to grab the blindfight feat and make a DC 20 listen check. DC move silently - 5 if the creature is merely moving and not taking other audible actions. The listen check gives you the creature's square, then you go attack it with your blindfight to reduce your miss chance. Any way to get tremorsense or blindsense will be as good as listen, but with no need to roll listen checks.

If you don't mind making a new character a grimlock gets blindsight out to 40 feet and starts out effectively as a 4th level character.

[WarKitty]

Well, I'm the group spellcaster trying to find ways to work with the party more effectively than just throwing flaming sphere around while the melee dudes whack with swords. So far most of my non straight damage spells have been nixed by the party because they mess up our smite-happy gang.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Glitterdust and Web are some of your best choices, just don't catch your party in them. Grease is another good one, especially if an enemy uses Rage since they can't use the balance skill so they can't move off of it. Drop a Glitterdust on them and blind them, or catch half of them in a Web. Once your party has taken care of anything that's not in the Web, shoot a Ray of Flame (SC) at one of the tangled ones, they'll all take damage from the burning webs and your party can finish off the fight.

[WarKitty]

Glitterdust and Web are some of your best choices, just don't catch your party in them. Grease is another good one, especially if an enemy uses Rage since they can't use the balance skill so they can't move off of it. Drop a Glitterdust on them and blind them, or catch half of them in a Web. Once your party has taken care of anything that's not in the Web, shoot a Ray of Flame (SC) at one of the tangled ones, they'll all take damage from the burning webs and your party can finish off the fight.

Druid with SC banned.

[Starbuck_II]

Grease is another good one, especially if an enemy uses Rage since they can't use the balance skill so they can't move off of it.

Untrue. Only Frenzied Berserker the Prc can't balance. Normal Rage workes fine.

[herrhauptmann]

Well, I'm the group spellcaster trying to find ways to work with the party more effectively than just throwing flaming sphere around while the melee dudes whack with swords. So far most of my non straight damage spells have been nixed by the party because they mess up our smite-happy gang.

If they're telling you how to play your character by saying what spells you shouldn't use, you can tell them how to play their characters by taking certain feats.
2 ranks spell craft + Mageslayer +Blindfight +Piercemagic Concealment will get a melee guy through concealment. It'll also let him use a ring of blinking without worrying about his own attacks missing if he can ever afford it.

Wait another level and start dispelling.


How are you going against so many people with concealment at level 4, particularly with an entire party that refuses to think tactically (they veto your nondamaging spells)

[WarKitty]

If they're telling you how to play your character by saying what spells you shouldn't use, you can tell them how to play their characters by taking certain feats.
2 ranks spell craft + Mageslayer +Blindfight +Piercemagic Concealment will get a melee guy through concealment. It'll also let him use a ring of blinking without worrying about his own attacks missing if he can ever afford it.

Wait another level and start dispelling.


How are you going against so many people with concealment at level 4, particularly with an entire party that refuses to think tactically (they veto your nondamaging spells)

The people don't have concealment. The issue is many of my non-damaging spells provide concealment. The only one I've found that doesn't is entangle, which they don't like because the melee guys get caught in it.

[DanReiv]

If your own spell are the issue I'd recommand you take Sculpt Spell metamagic rather than imposing 2 feats or a 10k gold item (mask of visual insight or something like that in MIC) on your partners

[WarKitty]

If your own spell are the issue I'd recommand you take Sculpt Spell metamagic rather than imposing 2 feats or a 10k gold item (mask of visual insight or something like that in MIC) on your partners

I was hoping more for something that would be practical for the next few levels. I fully intend to take sculpt spell, but right now I don't even have the spell slots for it.

[ericgrau]

Flaming sphere is an excellent spell at your level, I'd continue with it. It will quickly become obsolete but right now you're in the flaming sphere sweet spot. I'd cast at least 2 since it's only a move action to redirect each and some rounds the spheres are fine right where they are.

Soften earth and stone is 2nd level and works very well on dirt for trapping foes while being shapeable enough to avoid hitting your allies. But otherwise it's limited on stone. Shillelagh and entangle are also decent, though I suspect you've already had trouble not entangling your allies.

Once you get 3rd level spells sleet storm is awesome-sauce. It's grease + fog + slow speed + omg-it-has-a-40'-radius-not-20'-or-10' all rolled into one. Worth it even on a sorcerer I played. There were few encounters that could not be solved with a sleet storm. Foes file out for your allies to easily kill little by little. It also works well with allies with blind fight but blind fight is not essential.

[herrhauptmann]

The people don't have concealment. The issue is many of my non-damaging spells provide concealment. The only one I've found that doesn't is entangle, which they don't like because the melee guys get caught in it.

Ahhh, misunderstood the question a little. Perhaps the melee could let you open with entangle, THEN they charge in.

[Darrin]

Are there any good ways to allow someone to pierce magical concealment that would be within the reach of a level 4 party? I'm primarily interested in the concealment granted by area of effect spells like Fog Cloud.

Torch Bug Paste, Complete Scoundrel p. 120. Thrown as a splash weapon, non-magical faerie-fire effect that only costs 25 GP.