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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Scarey Nerd's Avatar

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    Default Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    Can the Sleight of Hand skill be used to cheat at cards, dice and other such gambling games in D&D? It makes perfect sense to me, but I couldn't see it as one of the listed things you can use the skill for in the PHB.

    Also, what kind of DCs would you assign to basic cheating, for instance swapping a two in your hand for an Ace up your sleeve?

    Thanks in advance
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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    I'd put it down to various "palm an item" checks mostly. I can't recall off the top of my head if Sleight of Hand is an opposed skill but it should be in this case. Your sleight of hand verses their spot I think.
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mentalist View Post
    I'd put it down to various "palm an item" checks mostly. I can't recall off the top of my head if Sleight of Hand is an opposed skill but it should be in this case. Your sleight of hand verses their spot I think.
    Yes, it is opposed by spot, and the opponent gets +4 if they suspect you of using the skill.
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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    That rule you just mentioned is basically what you need. What else are you looking for?
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mentalist View Post
    That rule you just mentioned is basically what you need. What else are you looking for?
    I was looking for specific DCs, as palming an object is DC 10 (?), but is still opposed by spot checks, so there needs to be a DC to accomplish it, and the spot checks to see if you are noticed.
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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    I'd say 15 to swap a card or manipulate dice and 20 to replace the dice (presumably with loaded ones)

    That's all I can think of at the moment.

    Edit: Also 20 to change a bet (pull coins out or something) Pastposting and the like.
    Last edited by The Mentalist; 2010-09-26 at 12:35 PM.
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    @Scarey Nerd: DC 10 is to successfully palm the object (and not drop it, for instance) and the opposed Spot check is to notice that you've done it.

    @The Mentalist: I wouldn't say that exchanging dice is significantly more difficult, so I'd leave the DC at 10 (but still opposed by a Spot Check).

    And no, you can't steal his pants without him noticing!

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sleight of Hand questions [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarey Nerd View Post
    Can the Sleight of Hand skill be used to cheat at cards, dice and other such gambling games in D&D? It makes perfect sense to me, but I couldn't see it as one of the listed things you can use the skill for in the PHB.

    Also, what kind of DCs would you assign to basic cheating, for instance swapping a two in your hand for an Ace up your sleeve?

    Thanks in advance
    Yes. That would be the conceal item and draw concealed item actions. Hiding your old card somewhere is straightforward: sleight of hand opposed by a spot check. There is normally no check for drawing a hidden item because you're not trying to hide it anymore. But IMO a sleight of hand opposed by a spot works again. Both are standard actions. You automatically succeed at drawing or putting away the card, anyone can do that, it's just a matter of whether or not others see you do it.

    For dice it is a DC 10 sleight of hand check to palm the item (hide it behind your hand) and probably another DC 10 check to swap in the other cheater die you already palmed. But this is also opposed by spot checks. After that you'd probably conceal the die you palmed in your clothing with a +4 bonus because it's so tiny.

    In either case if a spot check beats your sleight of hand check you still perform the action but the guy who made the spot check notices it.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2010-09-26 at 12:50 PM.
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