The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

[zmasterofjersey]

I am looking to apply to a game and I know the daggerspell mage(Complete ADV 32-33) isn't entirely good, I just like the overall flavor.

Sadly I am not a good optimizer and was wondering what the best way to get into the class was.

EDIT: The only sources I have are the srd, phb1, and complete warrior,arcane,divine, and adventurer.

[true_shinken]

Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1/Wizard 4 would work, I believe. You would need Practiced Spellcaster, though. With the requirements, that's 3 feats in 5 levels, so you need to be human.

[mafddawg]

I would recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane. Since Daggerspell Mage requires caster level 5th, and practiced spellcaster increases your caster level by 4 it should work to qualify you for daggerspell mage earlier.

Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.

[true_shinken]

Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.

But the spellcasting progression is the strongest feature of Daggerspell Mage. You should capitalize on that.

[zmasterofjersey]

But the spellcasting progression is the strongest feature of Daggerspell Mage. You should capitalize on that.

Thats what I was about to post, and I like the thug idea.

We start at level 8, so that might change how I can get into the class a little.

UA Fighter with Sneak1/Wizard5/Dgmage2 at this level, or something else.

[true_shinken]

UA Fighter with Sneak1/Wizard5/Dgmage2 at this level, or something else.

Wizard 5 does get you a bonus feat. If you use martial wizard from the SRD, you can even take Two-weapon Fighting or Weapon Focus with that bonus feat.
Looks like a very good entry. It does hurt your bab a little, but you can't make a revolution without breaking a few bones.

[zmasterofjersey]

What if I did Battle sorcerer from the U A I lose spellcasting but get average BAB, or would the wizard be better.

[Keld Denar]

Battle Sorc is almost NEVER a good option, especially if you are PrCing. The things you GAIN from Battle Sorc (HD, BAB, Armor), you mostly get from PrCs. The thing you give up, spellcasting, stays crippled forever. Don't do it.

[Siosilvar]

I would recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane. Since Daggerspell Mage requires caster level 5th, and practiced spellcaster increases your caster level by 4 it should work to qualify you for daggerspell mage earlier.

Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.

Don't mind me, just pointing out the oft-ignored fact that Practiced Spellcaster doesn't improve caster level past your character level.

Not that you did, but it's always a good idea to reiterate it in any discussion involving the feat.

[Chipp Zanuff]

Personally, I recommend not using Wizard entry. You are better off going pure-Wizard instead of Daggerspell Mage.

However, a sneaky little build I can concoct is this:

Human Thug Sneak Attack variant Fighter 6/Suel Arcanamach 4/Daggerspell Mage 5/Abjurant Champion 5
Feats

1st: Iron Will
Flaw: TWFing
Flaw: Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver, for Concentration as a class skill)
Fighter 1: Something useful
Fighter 2: Something more useful
3rd: Prereqs
Fighter 4: Something useful again
Fighter 6: Improved TWFing
6th: Something useful
9th and up: Free

[zmasterofjersey]

Where is abjurant champion, it isnt in the list of my sources, so I don't think I can use it.

[Keld Denar]

Its in Complete Mage. Possibly the best gish class ever printed. Full 5/5 BAB, 5/5 casting, d10 HD, and a bunch of cool abilities that turbo charge your abjurations.

[zmasterofjersey]

Sadly no complete mage, so thats out.

[Boren]

Friend of mine made a nasty DSM using warmage not a lot of versatility but boy can you ever let the nukes fly.

[Chipp Zanuff]

Sadly no complete mage, so thats out.

In that case, either finish out DSM or Suel.


But no Complete Mage may mean no Tome of Battle. Which means you are going to need another source to get Concentration as a class skill.

[senrath]

In that case, either finish out DSM or Suel.


But no Complete Mage may mean no Tome of Battle. Which means you are going to need another source to get Concentration as a class skill.

It does mean no Tome of Battle. From the OP:

EDIT: The only sources I have are the srd, phb1, and complete warrior,arcane,divine, and adventurer.

[Chipp Zanuff]

It does mean no Tome of Battle. From the OP:

SRD is in there, which means Skill Training (Unearthed Arcana) is allowed. Less efficient than Martial study, but it gets the job done.

[Pechvarry]

Except, isn't Skill Training not intended for use with normal games? i.e. substitution levels, racial paragon classes, and such are meant to integrate, but the generic class system and the wound point system obviously don't play well with normal D&D.

[Chipp Zanuff]

Except, isn't Skill Training not intended for use with normal games? i.e. substitution levels, racial paragon classes, and such are meant to integrate, but the generic class system and the wound point system obviously don't play well with normal D&D.

The Skill Training feat isn't presented as this. It's like saying Hidden Talent is only for Psionics is Different house rules. Both feats fit right into normal DnD games with little effort (you need to use the secondary use for Skill Training, but it still works as written).

[zmasterofjersey]

So since the campaign starts at level 8, my starting levels are. Thug1/Wizard5/Daggerspell mage 2.

Any last advice?

[Keld Denar]

Again, with Practiced Spellcaster, you can get in 1 level earlier, that means you'll have 3 levels of DSM. This is generally more favorable, and results in the same amount of casting power. It also keeps your CL at max, so you'll get more duration out of your spells and SR will be less of a problem.

So your build will be Thug1/Wizard4/DSM3

Thats assuming you can get all the feats you need for DSM in 5 levels.

[true_shinken]

The Skill Training feat isn't presented as this. It's like saying Hidden Talent is only for Psionics is Different house rules. Both feats fit right into normal DnD games with little effort (you need to use the secondary use for Skill Training, but it still works as written).

Except it is. It is part of the alternative skill system.

Again, with Practiced Spellcaster, you can get in 1 level earlier, that means you'll have 3 levels of DSM. This is generally more favorable, and results in the same amount of casting power. It also keeps your CL at max, so you'll get more duration out of your spells and SR will be less of a problem.

So your build will be Thug1/Wizard4/DSM3

Thats assuming you can get all the feats you need for DSM in 5 levels.

He can, that's just two feats. Martial Wizard would help, though. A daggerspell mage shouldn't be writing scrolls anyway.
Also, drop the familiar and specialize. Maybe use one of the alernative specialist wizards from UA. Make the most out of your wizard levels. Squeeze every little drop of arcane power until you can bend reality itself!
Erm, maybe I got a little carried away. But you got the idea.

[darkstar1984]

I've also been thinking of doing this or an arcane trickster build.

My thoughts were this:

Race: Human

Spellthief 1/Wizard 5/Daggerspell mage 2

Feats at level 8:
Two-weapon fighting
Weapon focus (dagger)
Combat casting
Master Spellthief
Weapon Finess

Master Spellthief allowing you to cast your wizard spells in light armor and making your wizard and spellthief levels stack to determine both caster level and what level spells you can steal. This also fulfills your sneak attack requirement.