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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    I am looking to apply to a game and I know the daggerspell mage(Complete ADV 32-33) isn't entirely good, I just like the overall flavor.

    Sadly I am not a good optimizer and was wondering what the best way to get into the class was.

    EDIT: The only sources I have are the srd, phb1, and complete warrior,arcane,divine, and adventurer.
    Last edited by zmasterofjersey; 2010-09-26 at 08:24 PM.

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    true_shinken's Avatar

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1/Wizard 4 would work, I believe. You would need Practiced Spellcaster, though. With the requirements, that's 3 feats in 5 levels, so you need to be human.

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    I would recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane. Since Daggerspell Mage requires caster level 5th, and practiced spellcaster increases your caster level by 4 it should work to qualify you for daggerspell mage earlier.

    Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.

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    true_shinken's Avatar

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mafddawg View Post
    Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.
    But the spellcasting progression is the strongest feature of Daggerspell Mage. You should capitalize on that.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    But the spellcasting progression is the strongest feature of Daggerspell Mage. You should capitalize on that.
    Thats what I was about to post, and I like the thug idea.

    We start at level 8, so that might change how I can get into the class a little.

    UA Fighter with Sneak1/Wizard5/Dgmage2 at this level, or something else.

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by zmasterofjersey View Post
    UA Fighter with Sneak1/Wizard5/Dgmage2 at this level, or something else.
    Wizard 5 does get you a bonus feat. If you use martial wizard from the SRD, you can even take Two-weapon Fighting or Weapon Focus with that bonus feat.
    Looks like a very good entry. It does hurt your bab a little, but you can't make a revolution without breaking a few bones.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    What if I did Battle sorcerer from the U A I lose spellcasting but get average BAB, or would the wizard be better.

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Battle Sorc is almost NEVER a good option, especially if you are PrCing. The things you GAIN from Battle Sorc (HD, BAB, Armor), you mostly get from PrCs. The thing you give up, spellcasting, stays crippled forever. Don't do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mafddawg View Post
    I would recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane. Since Daggerspell Mage requires caster level 5th, and practiced spellcaster increases your caster level by 4 it should work to qualify you for daggerspell mage earlier.

    Taking a single level in any spellcasting class would be enough to get you into the PrC after that, so all you need to worry about is fulfilling the sneak attack, feat and skill requirements.
    Don't mind me, just pointing out the oft-ignored fact that Practiced Spellcaster doesn't improve caster level past your character level.

    Not that you did, but it's always a good idea to reiterate it in any discussion involving the feat.
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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Personally, I recommend not using Wizard entry. You are better off going pure-Wizard instead of Daggerspell Mage.

    However, a sneaky little build I can concoct is this:

    Human Thug Sneak Attack variant Fighter 6/Suel Arcanamach 4/Daggerspell Mage 5/Abjurant Champion 5
    Feats

    1st: Iron Will
    Flaw: TWFing
    Flaw: Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver, for Concentration as a class skill)
    Fighter 1: Something useful
    Fighter 2: Something more useful
    3rd: Prereqs
    Fighter 4: Something useful again
    Fighter 6: Improved TWFing
    6th: Something useful
    9th and up: Free

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Where is abjurant champion, it isnt in the list of my sources, so I don't think I can use it.

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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Its in Complete Mage. Possibly the best gish class ever printed. Full 5/5 BAB, 5/5 casting, d10 HD, and a bunch of cool abilities that turbo charge your abjurations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Sadly no complete mage, so thats out.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Friend of mine made a nasty DSM using warmage not a lot of versatility but boy can you ever let the nukes fly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    the PC's stereotypical goal of killing everything in sight and stealing everything that isn't both nailed down and on fire.
    LOL

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by zmasterofjersey View Post
    Sadly no complete mage, so thats out.
    In that case, either finish out DSM or Suel.


    But no Complete Mage may mean no Tome of Battle. Which means you are going to need another source to get Concentration as a class skill.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chipp Zanuff View Post
    In that case, either finish out DSM or Suel.


    But no Complete Mage may mean no Tome of Battle. Which means you are going to need another source to get Concentration as a class skill.
    It does mean no Tome of Battle. From the OP:
    EDIT: The only sources I have are the srd, phb1, and complete warrior,arcane,divine, and adventurer.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBoundFencer
    NOBODY POST I AM HUGGING AN INFERNAL

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by senrath View Post
    It does mean no Tome of Battle. From the OP:
    SRD is in there, which means Skill Training (Unearthed Arcana) is allowed. Less efficient than Martial study, but it gets the job done.

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Except, isn't Skill Training not intended for use with normal games? i.e. substitution levels, racial paragon classes, and such are meant to integrate, but the generic class system and the wound point system obviously don't play well with normal D&D.

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    Chipp Zanuff's Avatar

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    Except, isn't Skill Training not intended for use with normal games? i.e. substitution levels, racial paragon classes, and such are meant to integrate, but the generic class system and the wound point system obviously don't play well with normal D&D.
    The Skill Training feat isn't presented as this. It's like saying Hidden Talent is only for Psionics is Different house rules. Both feats fit right into normal DnD games with little effort (you need to use the secondary use for Skill Training, but it still works as written).
    Last edited by Chipp Zanuff; 2010-09-26 at 11:08 PM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    So since the campaign starts at level 8, my starting levels are. Thug1/Wizard5/Daggerspell mage 2.

    Any last advice?

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Again, with Practiced Spellcaster, you can get in 1 level earlier, that means you'll have 3 levels of DSM. This is generally more favorable, and results in the same amount of casting power. It also keeps your CL at max, so you'll get more duration out of your spells and SR will be less of a problem.

    So your build will be Thug1/Wizard4/DSM3

    Thats assuming you can get all the feats you need for DSM in 5 levels.
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2010-09-27 at 02:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chipp Zanuff View Post
    The Skill Training feat isn't presented as this. It's like saying Hidden Talent is only for Psionics is Different house rules. Both feats fit right into normal DnD games with little effort (you need to use the secondary use for Skill Training, but it still works as written).
    Except it is. It is part of the alternative skill system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Again, with Practiced Spellcaster, you can get in 1 level earlier, that means you'll have 3 levels of DSM. This is generally more favorable, and results in the same amount of casting power. It also keeps your CL at max, so you'll get more duration out of your spells and SR will be less of a problem.

    So your build will be Thug1/Wizard4/DSM3

    Thats assuming you can get all the feats you need for DSM in 5 levels.
    He can, that's just two feats. Martial Wizard would help, though. A daggerspell mage shouldn't be writing scrolls anyway.
    Also, drop the familiar and specialize. Maybe use one of the alernative specialist wizards from UA. Make the most out of your wizard levels. Squeeze every little drop of arcane power until you can bend reality itself!
    Erm, maybe I got a little carried away. But you got the idea.
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2010-09-27 at 07:58 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The best way to get into Daggerspell mage?

    I've also been thinking of doing this or an arcane trickster build.

    My thoughts were this:

    Race: Human

    Spellthief 1/Wizard 5/Daggerspell mage 2

    Feats at level 8:
    Two-weapon fighting
    Weapon focus (dagger)
    Combat casting
    Master Spellthief
    Weapon Finess

    Master Spellthief allowing you to cast your wizard spells in light armor and making your wizard and spellthief levels stack to determine both caster level and what level spells you can steal. This also fulfills your sneak attack requirement.

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