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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I came across this thread a while ago, and it caught my interest. What would it be like to play as a swarm of other characters? And thus, you now have the schizophrenic hive mind:

    Schizophrenic Hive Mind:
    "Schizophrenic hive mind" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

    Size and Type
    The creature’s size and type remains the same.

    Speed
    As base creature.

    Special Qualities
    A Schizophrenic hive mind has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

    Split: Whenever a schizophrenic hive mind gains 3 character levels, a schizophrenic hive mind gains another personality. This personality has the same character level as the base base creature, of any LA+0 race the character chooses. Each day, at dawn, the character may do any of the following:

    Alter personality: The character becomes one alternate personality of their choosing. They lose all of their racial traits and class features, such as hit points and base attack bonus, as well as spellcasting and bonus feats, but gains all of the traits and class features of the selected alternate personality.

    Gain body: The character, and each alternate personality, loses 1 level for the day. This acts as if they had actually lost a level that belongs to a class that they have. It cannot be dispelled or recovered in any way while this ability is in effect. The character, for each additional level lost this way, may give one of his alternate personalities a physical form. For example, if Tordek the 6th level dwarf cleric wanted to manifest one of his alternate personalities, he may become a 4th level cleric, and his alternate personality, Kedrot, the 6th level half-orc barbarian, appears as a 4th level half-orc barbarian. If Tordek also wanted to manifest his third personality, Torked, the 6th level Elf Wizard, he may become a 3rd level cleric, Kedrot would become a 3rd level barbarian, and Torked would become a 3rd level elf wizard. A schizophrenic hive mind must have a minimum number of active personalities equal to 1/2 their total personalities. (For example, Tordek has 3 personalities: His base personality, and 2 alternate personalities.) Each personality manifested this way may communicate telepathically to each manifested personality. However, although these forms have individually separate minds, if one is affected by a mind-effecting spell, each personality in the schizophrenic hive mind is affected by it, as if the spell was targeted at all of them.

    Conflicting personalities: Whenever a schizophrenic hive mind is faced with a situation that would place one of their other personalities under duress, it must make a control check.
    Each personality rolls a will save. The personalities then choose in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. They choose a manifestation to take over. If there are no more manifestations available, the remaining personalites are dormant. If a dormant personality takes over a manifestation it does so as by the 'alter personality' ability

    In the event that two will saves are identical reroll those two saves, with the higher taking the first choice and the lower taking the second.

    A personality may choose to remain dormant, if it so desires.

    If a personality has a very good reason for coming forth (AKA, fighting a wizard who burned his hometown, talking to a mayor that owes one of the personalities money, etc.) the DM may add a situational modifier to any save, but to +5 or -5 to any different will save, depending on how good their motive is.

    Note: Personalities which are not manifested at the beginning of the day, if they come back later, they are treated as if they had not recovered their use of daily abilities (Such as rage, spell slots, wildshape, etc.) unless they rest in their new form for 10 minutes, or, in the case of spells per day, 1 hour of meditation. Until they do this, they are treated as not having recovered their abilities. Characters who have taken hit point damage heal points as if they had rested for 8 hours when they are manifested again. If a manifested personality dies, it may not manifest again unless Resurrection, True Resurrection, or Miracle is cast on the corpse of the dead personality.

    Saves
    All forms of a schizophrenic hive mind has a -2 penalty on all reflex and will saves, due to their internally conflicting minds. This deadens their reaction time, and over the course of their life, weakens their will, as the minds conflict with each other.

    Challenge Rating
    Same as base creature.

    Alignment
    Any.

    Level Adjustment
    Same as base creature.

    So, what do you think? I'm happy to hear advice and/or corrections to my (probably poorly worded) abilities.
    Last edited by Fable Wright; 2010-09-30 at 04:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 race), PEACH

    Not sure on balance having only briefly read through it, but one the whole it seems like it could easily be rather overpowered. The ability to change between various identities each day, each with their own class levels, stats, etc. is quite powerful. Particularly if there is someone in the party who is capable of predicting the future, or they just have a good idea what to expect. Sure at early levels it isn't that strong (only having a few personalities), but at late levels it could be a noteworthy advantage (imagine a party with most members being one of these, all set up so that they can form a number of different optimised party builds, essentially granting them the ability to swap out the party each day the one best suited to the task at hand).

    Also, I think the term you want is dissociative identity disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) as opposed to schizophrenia. The idea that the two are the same is a common misconception.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 TEMPLATE), PEACH

    this seems to be more of a template than a race as you end up as a dwarf hive-mind or an elf hive-mind
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 TEMPLATE), PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Not sure on balance having only briefly read through it, but one the whole it seems like it could easily be rather overpowered. The ability to change between various identities each day, each with their own class levels, stats, etc. is quite powerful. Particularly if there is someone in the party who is capable of predicting the future, or they just have a good idea what to expect. Sure at early levels it isn't that strong (only having a few personalities), but at late levels it could be a noteworthy advantage (imagine a party with most members being one of these, all set up so that they can form a number of different optimised party builds, essentially granting them the ability to swap out the party each day the one best suited to the task at hand).

    Also, I think the term you want is dissociative identity disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) as opposed to schizophrenia. The idea that the two are the same is a common misconception.

    Owrtho
    Yeah, I thought of that. I gave them -2 to some saves, but the thing is, I wanted to find some mechanic of how to play as multiple characters, and see how it would work. I'm trying to find some mechanic of a non-broken system to run multiple creatures as a single character. If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them, but just saying, "they can set up a number of different optimized party builds" doesn't exactly help me make adjustments that would keep it balanced. It took a while to think this up. I realize it could be min/maxed, but so can everything. I'm just trying to find something that works. Additionally, if you have one character in multiple bodies, you actually have less of an opportunity to min/max, as you have alot less gold per character than normal.

    Also, I know schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder aren't the same, but 'multiple personality hive mind' just doesn't have the same ring to it, you know?
    Quote Originally Posted by newD&Dfan View Post
    this seems to be more of a template than a race as you end up as a dwarf hive-mind or an elf hive-mind
    ...or you could have any number of LA+0 races in the same hive-mind. I changed the title now, though.
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I think the powerbalance could be something like ego, with intelligent weapons.

    Have one of the personalities (the base) be the creature proper. Each alternate personality has an ego score, and when it's ego score takes over, or what have you, either the DM or the player (depending on the nature of the game) alters to actions of the personalities to be more bent towards the new personalities wants/needs/desires.

    Generally with this disorder, there are large conflicts of interest, a few stemming from socially constructed desires and motivations (Don't shout at strangers, eat with silverwear, don't hit people when your mad, don't be romantically or carnally active with your boss's daughter) and more 'base' or unsculpted desires (Such as tobe carnally active with your bosses daughter, to drive knives in to people's skulls when they politically block your actions, ect.) If each personality has different aspirations, tactical options, and views on right and wrong, you will find this build to keep itself if check...

    Sure Tordek wants the glory of killing the Troll, but Kordet may want to seek vengeance on the local mayor for slighting him at a game of cards and thus allow the troll to live to thrash the city, while Rod'tek may want to lay in the grass and play music all day. Very interesting if a player must make ego checks in times of high duress.

    I once DM'd a character who had willing divided her mind, and sometimes when she was sleeping her 'Male' alter ego would run about town doing heinous womanizing activities, She became quite famous for things she didn't know about. And none of the NPC's who had met her 'Male' other would refer to her as a woman for fear of her blade.
    Last edited by AugustNights; 2010-09-28 at 01:26 PM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    That's... a very good idea, actually. I'll go make a note of that. That would certainly make for an interesting character... in times of duress, he's an entirely different person altogether. Or an entirely different set of multiple people, at times.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    This reminds me a lot of one of my prestige classes, the Stereotype.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I don't see how, really, except that the character could be multiple changing races. Not that similar. Your class can't divide into separate bodies.

    Also, could someone help me reword the conflicting personalities feature?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Maybe you could just have an Ego score for each personality, like they have with magic items.

    For personalities in time of duress, you could probably just say that whenever one of those situations occurs, a personality attempts to take over and the Schizophrenic Hive Mind takes a -1 on the roll to save against being taken over. If they fail, a random personality takes over (DM chooses).

    That good?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    And how would you calculate the ego score? An opposed will save makes the most sense...
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    There are a couple ways it could work:

    - Different Ego scores depending on class

    - Ego Score = Character Level

    - Ego Score = 10 + 1/2 Character Level (rounded down) + Charisma modifier of personality

    You could also just use these for the DC of the save, but I think Ego scores are a bit better, as the personalities appear to be at least semi-independent sentient beings, like the minds of intelligent magic items

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I've already decided on opposed will saves. It fits the fluff better. All I want is, if possible, a better way to word it.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Alright. Question: Do the multiple personalities each have their own feats and skill ranks? or do they all share one set of those?

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I'm not certain if opposed willsaves is the best way to go.
    It certainly would make a LG Fighter with a CN Sorcerer character more interesting, but the Paladin with a evil Barbarian is going to rule over the Barbarian every day of the week. Perhaps modifiers, like goal opportunities would help.

    Dramatic things like, Lover or Family is involved, the hierarchy of desires and needs.

    Kram the bard may be a pacifist, but Mark the fighter may really need to kill the wizard that burned down his hometown. Even though Kram's will save would generally be higher, Mark would get a large bonus to his opposed check.

    In an alternate situation, Ramk the lazy commoner may be Charmed by the Succubus into not fighting, but Karm the Paladin has forsworn to slay all fiendish abominations. Because of the Charm effect is a strong emotional pull, Karm may only receive a small bonus to her opposed check.

    Things like that, make sense at all?
    I'm just concerned that classes with Higher saves (esp. the Paladin w/ Divine Grace) will usually overpower the others. But if there is a situational modifier, +/- 5 points, then there ought to be a level of balance, and dramatic interest.
    Come with me, time out of mind...

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Alright, I added the clause for a situational modifier. Good advice.
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Here's a step towards cleaning up the language.
    A bit like initiative... Also I think personalities should be allowed to remain dormant.
    I'm willing to bet S'Cri the Drow Necromancer wouldn't want to be manifested when Cris the halfling Paladin embarrasses himself in front of the Abbot of St. Cuthbert's Astral Church.

    Conflicting personalities: Whenever a schizophrenic hive mind is faced with a situation that would place one of their other personalities under duress,
    it must make a control check.
    Each personality rolls a will save. The personalities then choose in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. They choose a manifestation to take over. If there are no more manifestations available, the remaining personalites are dormant. If a dormant personality takes over a manifestation it does so as by the 'alter personality' ability

    In the event that two will saves are identical reroll those two saves, with the higher taking the first choice and the lower taking the second.

    A personality may choose to remain dormant, if it so desires.

    If a personality has a very good reason for coming forth (AKA, fighting a wizard who burned his hometown, talking to a mayor that owes one of the personalities money, etc.) the DM may add a situational modifier to any save, but to +5 or -5 to any different will save, depending on how good their motive is.
    Come with me, time out of mind...

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Thank you. I appreciate it.
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I once have run a character using something of that kind he was able to split himself in many body but with -4 Level per Body. So by level 20 he was able to have : 1 Body (lvl 20), 2 Body (16/16), 3 Body (12/12/12), 4 Body (8/8/8/8), 5 Body (6/6/6/6/6) or 6 Body (2/2/2/2/2/2) most of the time he was using only 2-4 Body but sometime even low level character in number can help a lot

    Currently by your rules at level 20 you can easly be a Full Party of 4 level 17 character (Psion/Wizard/Cleric/Warblade) and you can optimized all your 7 Personalities...

    That's a bit much I think, but I really like the idea.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    On the other hand, your optimized personalities might need to switch out at inopportune times. For example, when the paladin personality is fighting the BBEG, in hand-to-hand combat, for some reason or other, the wizard personality might come out. With low HP and horrible melee combat.

    Also note that this wizard personality, most likely did not re-prepare their spells-per-day, and they are as such lacking most of their potential offensive force. I'll make a note of this, but I don't think it's too overpowered.
    Last edited by Fable Wright; 2010-09-30 at 03:52 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Do the multiple personalities each have their own feats and skill ranks? or do they all share one set of those? Also, can personalities enter prestige classes?

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    Yes, No, DM ruling.
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    Default Re: Schizophrenic hive mind (D&D 3.5 template/race), PEACH

    I honestly dont have any problem with multiple Personality like this (giving a LA of +2 to it in my campaign if I ever use it), however the multiple body may prove to be a problem... just do some playtesting and you will see

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