Intelligent Undead Servants

[Mordrigar]

I've written this on Simple Q&A D&D 3.5 (by RAW) XIV topic but answer was "This question should have its own thread" So i'm asking it again here.

Is there a way to create undead servants that have their own minds, class levels and abilities etc. with a spell or something? I'm looking for things like Vampire's "Create Spawn (SU)" ability.
From SRD:

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If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

[Lhurgyof]

I've written this on Simple Q&A D&D 3.5 (by RAW) XIV topic but answer was "This question should have its own thread" So i'm asking it again here.

Is there a way to create undead servants that have their own minds, class levels and abilities etc. with a spell or something? I'm looking for things like Vampire's "Create Spawn (SU)" ability.
From SRD:

Spoiler

Show

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

Animate dead can create Bone and Corpse creatures, both from Book of Vile Darkness, which are intelligent.

Edit: They can take class levels, too. So you can just pay for their hit dice to be class levels instead of undead hit dice.

[Leon]

Are you ok with using non Different Settings books?


Thralls from Iron Kingdom are (Depending on what type you make) Intelligent Undead.
By the rules given in the IKCG they are quite expensive to craft but its a option and you can always negotiate with your DM about altering it.
(My change to it was the EXP and Gold Cost was Per Hit Die rather than Hit Point)



Also while i don tknow if there is a way to create them or not Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons are Intelligent.

[Mastikator]

Wights, wraiths and technically ghouls are intelligent, or at the very least conscious. So TECHNICALLY they should be able to take class levels.

Can be created with Create Undead (cleric 5 or 6 I think).

[Mordrigar]

Animate dead can create Bone and Corpse creatures, both from Book of Vile Darkness, which are intelligent.

Animated creatures lose all their class levels and abilities iirc.

Are you ok with using non Different Settings books?


Thralls from Iron Kingdom are (Depending on what type you make) Intelligent Undead.
By the rules given in the IKCG they are quite expensive to craft but its a option and you can always negotiate with your DM about altering it.
(My change to it was the EXP and Gold Cost was Per Hit Die rather than Hit Point)


Also while i don tknow if there is a way to create them or not Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons are Intelligent.

May bad, didn't write it up there. I'm only allowed 3.5ed. But all books of this settings are available (including web appendixes, magazines etc.)

Wights, wraiths and technically ghouls are intelligent, or at the very least conscious. So TECHNICALLY they should be able to take class levels.

Can be created with Create Undead (cleric 5 or 6 I think).

But created undeads are not under control of you. I still have to cast command or control spells on them. I'm looking for eternal servants. For example, you've killed your deadly rival. He is a super fighter. I want to raise him as my undead servant with his own mind and abilities.

Like Strahd's vampire spawns (from Ravenloft) or Lord Soth's 13 Death Knights (from Dragonlance)

[Coidzor]

The closest thing for that which I can think of would still be Animate Dread Warrior from Unapproachable East. But it makes them... dumb when they come back. :/ So no casters, or at least, no INT casters. I don't think Wis or Cha suffer too much, but they can't take complex instructions as a special quality.

But, IIRC, there's no actual control limit on them and they're controlled when raised.

Hmm, there might be something that has create spawn and applies an intelligent template...

[Lhurgyof]

Animated creatures lose all their class levels and abilities iirc.

Yes, but Bone and Corpse creatures can take class levels. So if you were to animate a 5 HD corpse creature, it could be a 5th level barbarian, no?

I just remember playing a bone creature true necromancer. He had a fedora and an everburning cigar, Jet teeth and black star sapphire eyes (VERY EXPENSIVE) and was going to undergo a process to replace his bones with onyx.

[hamishspence]

Create Undead (greater?) can create Bone Creatures and Corpse Creatures- but not Animate Dead.

It doesn't say whether it scales with level though- do you have to be higher level to create a Bone Creature with higher Hit Dice?

[Lhurgyof]

Create Undead (greater?) can create Bone Creatures and Corpse Creatures- but not Animate Dead.

It doesn't say whether it scales with level though- do you have to be higher level to create a Bone Creature with higher Hit Dice?

Ah, thank you.
I'm not quite sure... with this cheese you could create one bone elf with enough levels of wizard to make any GM cry.

[hamishspence]

Alternatively, Bone creatures (or corpse creatures) come back with whatever levels they had in life.

So if you could find and animate a 20th level elf wizard corpse, yes, you'd have a very powerful minion at your disposal (might rule you can't Create Undead with these templates, if they would be higher level than you).

[Lhurgyof]

Alternatively, Bone creatures (or corpse creatures) come back with whatever levels they had in life.

So if you could find and animate a 20th level elf wizard corpse, yes, you'd have a very powerful minion at your disposal (might rule you can't Create Undead with these templates, if they would be higher level than you).

Wait, they come back with what levels they had in life?

Or are you just thinking up something to stop your players from all playing necromancers with level 30 wizard minions?

[hamishspence]

Bone creature and Corpse creature are templates, so that might be how they work.

A bit like Lich or Death Knight in that respect.

[Lhurgyof]

Bone creature and Corpse creature are templates, so that might be how they work.

A bit like Lich or Death Knight in that respect.

Hmmm, perhaps. But I'm hopeful that it works on how many hit dice you want to give it.

If not, it's still a better idea than most zombies and skeletons, as it gets the abilities it had in life.

[Coidzor]

Or are you just thinking up something to stop your players from all playing necromancers with level 30 wizard minions?

You mean other than the combination of scarcity (what kills a level 30 wizard and leaves a corpse a sub-epic character could get to?) and intel?

[Morph Bark]

You mean other than the combination of scarcity (what kills a level 30 wizard and leaves a corpse a sub-epic character could get to?) and intel?

A simple case of suicide?

[KillianHawkeye]

But I'm hopeful that it works on how many hit dice you want to give it.

I'm pretty sure you can't just choose how many Hit Dice you want to "give" a creature you're raising. That doesn't make any sense. Hit Dice are always determined by either the base creature (in the case of templated creatures) or the creature that it's being raised as.

[The Gilded Duke]

Awaken Undead gives them back class features I believe, but has an xp cost. Should be in Spell Compendium.

[Asheram]

Awaken Undead gives them back class features I believe, but has an xp cost. Should be in Spell Compendium.

An L7 spell. so that's L13 for a Wizard or someone who casts like one.

Hm. Or Deathbound domain L6. L11 for a Cleric or someone who casts like one

[Coidzor]

A simple case of suicide?

I don't think Asmodeus is going to give you the body, even if you ask nicely.

Maybe you can get your jumplomancer friend to impress him though...

[Darrin]

Is there a way to create undead servants that have their own minds, class levels and abilities etc. with a spell or something?

What exactly are you trying to do with the servants?

This is kind of tricky... the unseen servants don't count as creatures... heck, they barely count as objects. But if you could find some way to animate them similar to animate objects, then you could probably do something with the animate construct spell (which won't work on temporarily animated objects) or the incarnate construct template.

[KillianHawkeye]

What exactly are you trying to do with the servants?

This is kind of tricky... the unseen servants don't count as creatures... heck, they barely count as objects. But if you could find some way to animate them similar to animate objects, then you could probably do something with the animate construct spell (which won't work on temporarily animated objects) or the incarnate construct template.

An unseen servant is neither a creature nor an object. It is simply a spell effect.

I'm not sure why you're bringing it up at all, though, since the OP is looking for undead servants, not unseen servants.

[Lhurgyof]

An unseen servant is neither a creature nor an object. It is simply a spell effect.

I'm not sure why you're bringing it up at all, though, since the OP is looking for undead servants, not unseen servants.

Bone Incarnate Construct Awakened Unseen Servant?

[Coidzor]

Um. I don't think Unseen servants have a skeletal system, what with being shapeless in addition to invisible and mindless. In addition to all of the other problematic areas. Like how they count as constructs for the template to be applied to start.

Does Incarnate Construct grant one? (hmm, it would seem to, since it requires an anthropomorphic form to be a valid target)

Of course, having an undead butler created entirely out of magic would be fittingly awesome.

What class would be best for a butler, anyway? Or a battle butler as the case probably would be.

[Lhurgyof]

Um. I don't think Unseen servants have a skeletal system. In addition to all of the other problematic areas.

Does Incarnate Construct grant one? Doesn't it require a humanoid-shaped construct as the target?

Of course, having an undead butler created entirely out of magic would be fitting.

What class would be best for a butler, anyway? Or a battle butler as the case probably would be.

Expert or Noble, I'd say.

[Benly]

A level 11 caster can make a Necrosis Carnex (MM4) with Animate Dead, which is not exactly a great butler at Int 3 but is better than mindless. Awaken Undead is probably the best solution overall, or else rebuking things you've made with Create Undead.

[Dr Gunsforhands]

In the Eberron book Five Nations there is a prestige class called Bone Knight that allows you to summon Karnathi Skeletons and Karnathi Zombies as a class ability. It's called fill the ranks and works like Animate Dead. Karnathi Skeletons and Zombies are intelligent undead (kinda along the similar vein as how Warforged are intelligent constructs) raised by the Nation of Karnath that you can find in the back of the Eberron Core. All you need is a corpse to use this ability and you have a loyal, intelligent, undead minion eager to undie for you to protect your unlife.

[Benly]

In the Eberron book Five Nations there is a prestige class called Bone Knight that allows you to summon Karnathi Skeletons and Karnathi Zombies as a class ability. It's called fill the ranks and works like Animate Dead. Karnathi Skeletons and Zombies are intelligent undead (kinda along the similar vein as how Warforged are intelligent constructs) raised by the Nation of Karnath that you can find in the back of the Eberron Core. All you need is a corpse to use this ability and you have a loyal, intelligent, undead minion eager to undie for you to protect your unlife.

Oddly, I was just looking up stuff on Karrnathi undead for an unrelated reason, and it turns out Keith Baker suggests letting them be made with Animate Dead under the right circumstances (target must have been level 3 minimum, must have been a Karrnathi soldier who died on the battlefield, and double the usual material component cost). It's not official material, but it is supplemental clarification from the designer, which is often worth something. If your DM lets you adapt it to your allied faction of choice rather than specifically Karrnath, they're a nice option to have.

Of course, he also suggests restricting the Bone Knight ability to much the same rules regarding allowable corpses, so your mileage may vary.

[Coidzor]

Interesting, thanks for the heads up with that, Benly.

[Malbordeus]

theres the mumified creature template in the LM which doesnt replace your HD with monster HD so, should let you keep class features, also the gravetouched ghoul... (which might require appropriate sacrifices and an alter dedicated to Doresian to get applied)

second up theres Awaken Undead. whilst they dont regain skills and feats, they do become able to learn them, and therefore level up appropriatly again.

with the Wight suggestion, its more efficient to enervate something to death and wait 24 hrs, then use rebuke to gain control of it rahter than cast Create Undead. especially as with Create Undead, you still need to control the critter after you've made it.

[Mordrigar]

I was away for a day and came back. Its nice to see that some people answered my question.
What i really looking for is, an undead servant who is absolutely loyal to its creator and has its own skills, feats, class abilities, memories etc. Just like vampire's slaves.

Why i want this?

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Because, in my campagin i was leading a troop of blood trolls (more than 75 blood trolls with fighter(4) or wizard (6) class levels.) and razing every church in front of me. While destroying Ilmater Temple, level 15 monk tried to stop my trolls. I was bored of controlling troops and entered battle field for fighting that poor monk. I made a wrong move and he almost killed me but i managed to retreat. Then my troops killed him in 1 round. Now i'm looking for animate him (and every priest of that church) as my servants with their memories and class abilities. They will remember their life but can't disobey my orders.

My current character is a God Hater Ur-Priest / Wizard and because of some extraordinary events, Divine Magic is not working and this makes, all clerics and paladins ordinary fighters.

For that templates... Yes they make monsters retain their abilities but you don't get absolute control on them. Also there is no clue how do you add that template. How could a wizard/cleric could add mummified template to a creature?

Awaken undead seems great for me but still isn't exactly what i want. I can create good undead fighters with it.