Lords of the Nine [3.5]

[Galsiah]

Hello all, I am currently running a campaign in which my players are unwittingly taking part in a war between all major aligned forces of the multiverse, and inspired by the recent Asmodeus thread, I am now trying to find information on how the Lords of the Nine interact with one another, how strong each is, just any general details about how Baator works really. I'm starting with Baator because the PC's have sided with the devils for the time being, and would like to flesh out the next session a bit more thoroughly. Any help is much appreciated

[BeholderSlayer]

Are you using BoVD? Dicefreaks? Fiendish Codex? How "epic" are you going for here? How strong do you want the Nine to be?

[Xefas]

Well, so far as I can tell, relationship wise, it goes a bit like this (this is from memory, so there may be some inaccuracies):

Bel
Friendly terms with everyone. Basically, he's an real time strategy gamer turned Pit Fiend and he'd like nothing better to do with his afterlife than wage endless war with the Abyss. He takes care of the other Lords obligation to the Blood War, and in exchange, none of the other Lords messes with him. They all want him to stay in office so they can get done what they want to get done.

Dispater
Old war buddies with Asmodeus and Mephistopheles. They fought the ancient demons together when the multiverse was young. Dispater seems loyal to Asmodeus and doesn't much care about anyone else. None of the other Lords sink much effort into deposing him because he's the master of defense. He has no offense to speak of, and is thus not much of a threat. Conversely, it would take 100x more effort to take him down, and then you're left open as easy pickings for the other Lords.

Mammon
Everyone hates him. Everyone. He's sleaziness incarnate. He respects nothing, has no ethics, no honor, no dignity. Just about any other Lord would jump at the chance to murder his ugly face. Heck, just about any other sapient being in the multiverse would jump at the chance to murder his ugly face.

Fierna
The big conflict with her is from Belial, her dad. He used to rule the layer, but let his daughter be in charge as a scapegoat. He would rule through her, letting her be his puppet, and if someone gets assassinated, it'd probably be her and not him. However, she grew a backbone eventually and doesn't like the condescending way dear old dad treats her. To that end, she made an *ahem* alliance with Glasya. She hopes that, together, the two of them can get rid of Belial and be bestest best friends forever. Asmodeus doesn't really approve of Glasya spending so much time with Fierna. He isn't pissed yet, but it might be only a matter of time. The first time Glasya comes home with a tattoo and a nose-ring, heads will roll for certain.

Levistus
Well, he stabbed Asmodeus' wife to death. Yeeeeah. Asmodeus and Glasya both hate him, and for that reason, he's a pretty undesirable ally for anyone. No one knows if when they help Levistus out, Asmodeus'll just turn them into a newt, but they don't want to risk it and find out. Similarly, Levistus hates Asmodeus and wants him dead in a big way. He has the hots for Glasya, but, once again, he killed her mom, so that seems like a case of barking up the wrong bush.

Glasya
Asmodeus' little girl. She's buddies with Fierna, hates Levistus, and is really the worst possible target for attack. Asmodeus would take a direct attack on his person much less personally than attacking his sweet innocent daughter. Kill her, and watch as 10,000 full-hitdie Pit Fiends spontaneously teleport adjacent to you. Right before the nuke hits. And then your soul implodes, for good measure.

Baalzebul
Here is where the big, open conflicts get going. Ol' Baalzebul wants the throne and he's in a better position than most to get it. He's actually a fallen angel, much like Mephistopheles, and Dispater, so that might give him a little social pull with them. On the downside, he's also a nasty slug monster that no amount of Axe deodorant and Irish Spring is going to clean up. Still, he's the 3rd baddest dude in Hell, and so makes a good potential ally.

Mephistopheles
He's so damn cool that cultists actually confuse him and Asmodeus all the time. He invented hellfire. All that "fire" that mortals keep attributing to Hell? That's him. He's a suave, smart, magnificent bastard, and a good candidate for the next Ruler of Hell. Even Asmodeus likes his style. He openly wars with Baalzebul and Asmodeus, regularly trash talking and showing absolutely no shame.

Asmodeus
Well, everyone wants his spot in the end. He's possibly the single strongest entity in the Planes, double that within the bounds of Baator. You ally with him, and you win. You fight him, you lose. Levistus still tries out of hate, Mephisto and Baalzy still try out of misguided ambition. Dispater, Bel, and Glasya are all (more or less) loyal to him. Fierna and Mammon probably send the occasional stripper coated in poison, or fruitcake filled with holy symbols coated in poison, or obligatory legion of cornugons (coated in poison, probably), but they don't try for reals. They know they're much better off trying to take out some of the weaker lords to grow their power.

[evil-frosty]

I dont really have anything to add to that, thats exceedingly thorough one thing though I believe Dispater and Mephistopheles technically do have an alliance i dont remember how strong it is though.

But I always thought was a cool idea was having an adventure/campaign revolve around the PCs unwittingly help give Asmodeous his power, seems like a rather cool idea to me plus you get to make the Hells however you want which is pretty fun and has plenty of opportunity for just about any type of gaming style. You would have to go ways back in history though if you want to even remotely stick to the standard fluff.

[JonestheSpy]

Asmodeus
Well, everyone wants his spot in the end. He's possibly the single strongest entity in the Planes, double that within the bounds of Baator.

Demogorgon can kick Asmodeus's ass, just sayin'. Not that it would be easy, but all that "Asmodeus is teh ULTIMATE" stuff is just Baatorian propaganda that's convinced the gullible.

[Lord_Gareth]

Eh, I have no respect for demons. The whole "embodiment of CE" translates to "embodiment of being a psychotic moron who can't stick to a grocery list, let alone a plan".

[Deth Muncher]

Xefas, I'm pretty sure that analysis of the Nine is the single most hilarious and informative thing I've read on the Internets. And I read Cracked.

[NineThePuma]

Xefas, I'm pretty sure that analysis of the Nine is the single most hilarious and informative thing I've read on the Internets. And I read Cracked.

Quote. For. Truth.

[Frosty]

I think we need to write a soap opera starring the Lords of the Nine. Seriously. This thing almost writes itself.

It could like an ultra-violent version of Gossip Girls...

[hamishspence]

At the time BoVD was written, Demogorgon was CR 30 and Asmodeus CR 32.

When the demon lords were revised in the Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles, Demogorgon became CR 33.

So- if the archdevils are revised in the same fashion- even if you don't go quite as far as Dicefreaks did- Asmodeus should have a CR 2 points higher than Demogorgon's.

Also- I like that analysis of the Nine. Hilarious yet accurate.

[Caliphbubba]

I've really enjoyed the take that the Dicefreaks have on The Nine Hells, and the Lords of the Nine. I don't think that the forum is very active anymore but here is a link. http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/index.php

Pretty sure they have a pdf up still of "The Gates of Hell" that has tons of stuff on the Lords of the Nine.

[hamishspence]

I think it was broken up into 9 separate PDFs:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...=169554&page=4

[PrGo]

Eh, I have no respect for demons. The whole "embodiment of CE" translates to "embodiment of being a psychotic moron who can't stick to a grocery list, let alone a plan".

I am so sigging that.

Also, Mephistopheles rocks. You've really got to have a pair of cohones to go to the baddest dude in your vicinity and tell him that one day you'll kill him and sit on his chair.

Yeah.

[Telonius]

I am so sigging that.

Also, Mephistopheles rocks. You've really got to have a pair of cohones to go to the baddest dude in your vicinity and tell him that one day you'll kill him and sit on his chair.

Yeah.

My personal suspicion is that Asmo wants it like that: all the better to pick off up-and-coming threats.

[Eldan]

I am so sigging that.

Also, Mephistopheles rocks. You've really got to have a pair of cohones to go to the baddest dude in your vicinity and tell him that one day you'll kill him and sit on his chair.

Yeah.

Of course, that biggest baddest dude then says "Good luck, Buddy", sends you home with a gift basket and imprisons and exiles his own allies instead to make it more of a challenge.

[Galsiah]

Thanks for the replies everyone,
@BeholderSlayer-I'm planning on us taking this campaign to epic levels, so pretty epic. Originally it was just going to be another few level campaign, but thanks to significant interest from my players we're going to take it all the way. We also have access to BoVD and FC.

@Xefas- Wow, thanks for that incredibly informative, and humorous post. This definitely helps me out a lot, now I can put together the devil infighting I was looking for.

@Caliphbubba- Thanks for the link, will have a look at that when I get a chance.

Alright then, lemme give some more info on how the campaign stands now. Right now I have 4 PC's, not really optimizers, though I help them out with it. We're all into political intrigue, which is a lot of what this campaign will be. Hence the "warring factions", brought up to the cosmic scale. The idea is that each of the alignments have their own stakes in the world the PC's live in and will independantly act and work towards their goals. The PC's have sided with the devils, who are working through a group of necromancers on the Prime Material to build an outpost. The point of building an outpost is to goad everyone else into war, starting with the demons attacking the devils, bringing in the good aligned planes to fight both sides. Yugoloths will be selling their services to the evil aligned forces. All in all, it will be a total war type thing, with the twist that the PC's have an artifact that can strip the power from gods, though they don't know it yet. So I was wondering how the Lords of the Nine, and all of Baator, would react to this type of situation.

[Tharck]

Popcorn. It's what hellfire was made for.

[Caliphbubba]

Alright then, lemme give some more info on how the campaign stands now. Right now I have 4 PC's, not really optimizers, though I help them out with it. We're all into political intrigue, which is a lot of what this campaign will be. Hence the "warring factions", brought up to the cosmic scale. The idea is that each of the alignments have their own stakes in the world the PC's live in and will independantly act and work towards their goals. The PC's have sided with the devils, who are working through a group of necromancers on the Prime Material to build an outpost. The point of building an outpost is to goad everyone else into war, starting with the demons attacking the devils, bringing in the good aligned planes to fight both sides. Yugoloths will be selling their services to the evil aligned forces. All in all, it will be a total war type thing, with the twist that the PC's have an artifact that can strip the power from gods, though they don't know it yet. So I was wondering how the Lords of the Nine, and all of Baator, would react to this type of situation.

So this is a battle royal fight for all of the Prime Material? or just one world? it's a pretty significant difference I think, because I'm not sure all of the Lords of the Nine would be all that interested in the invasion and subjegation of merely one world.

For instance one of the Exiled Archdukes, sometimes called the "Tenth Lord of the Nine", Gargauth is trying basically this on Toril to try and drag it into the Hell Pit to become a true Lord of Hell. (At least I think this is the case).

[Lord_Gareth]

Keeping in mind as well that Asmodeus is the only guy with his head screwed on right where "right" and "wrong" are concerned. This includes the Upper Planes. Read this "We tarnish ourselves so that you might remain pure" speech sometime; Asmodeus concerns himself with the job of actually preserving existence and doing the job right so that the morons in Celestia can prance around with bloodless hands.

[Renegade Paladin]

Keeping in mind as well that Asmodeus is the only guy with his head screwed on right where "right" and "wrong" are concerned. This includes the Upper Planes. Read this "We tarnish ourselves so that you might remain pure" speech sometime; Asmodeus concerns himself with the job of actually preserving existence and doing the job right so that the morons in Celestia can prance around with bloodless hands.

Either that, or that's just what he wants everyone to think. What speech is that, incidentally?

[Lord_Gareth]

It's from one of the fiendish codexes; someone quoted it here a long time ago, but I can't remember it verbatim.

Essentially, though, when the multiverse is being threatened and the Forces of Good (patent pending) are crying and weeping about what to do to stop it that doesn't involve committing an act of small (or great) evil, Asmodeus arranges for the multiverse to be saved and claims all the blame for it. He doesn't mind doing this. He does it because, hell, someone has to. Why not let the innocent have their delusions? He'll always be around to get things done.

[Paladineyddi]

Eh, I have no respect for demons. The whole "embodiment of CE" translates to "embodiment of being a psychotic moron who can't stick to a grocery list, let alone a plan".

sigged

^^

[Caliphbubba]

It's from one of the fiendish codexes; someone quoted it here a long time ago, but I can't remember it verbatim.

Essentially, though, when the multiverse is being threatened and the Forces of Good (patent pending) are crying and weeping about what to do to stop it that doesn't involve committing an act of small (or great) evil, Asmodeus arranges for the multiverse to be saved and claims all the blame for it. He doesn't mind doing this. He does it because, hell, someone has to. Why not let the innocent have their delusions? He'll always be around to get things done.

I think this is part of the Pact Primeval: From the Wiki article on Asmodeus

Spoiler

Show

According to the Pact Primeval legend, Asmodeus was once the greatest of the angels who were servants of the primal deities of law, created to combat demons in the age before ages. As the battle went on, Asmodeus and his company grew ever more poisoned by their combat against the infinite hordes of the Abyss. The deities grew restless at seeing him and his tainted companions, but could not find clauses in their laws that would allow them to cast him out. Further, they were distressed that mortals were choosing to disobey law, choosing the so-called liberty dangled to them by demons, rather than adhering to the dictates of the gods of law. Asmodeus, seeing the predicament, proposed that the gods establish punishment and retribution as a way to giving consequence to mortals who chose not to follow law. Asmodeus's masters agreed, and assigned him and his brood to administer the punishment. So as to spare them the sight of mortal souls being eternally tortured and made to suffer, Asmodeus chose the (apparently empty) plane of Baator as the site for his new Hells, and demanded that he and his dark company be allowed to harvest energy from the souls they punished for their sins, or they would have to be made gods themselves to have the strength to manage the task. Thus the "Pact Primeval" was signed, and the baatezu—devils—were created.

[Lord_Gareth]

Is that quote getting sigged for snark factor or because it's so very true of how WotC wrote Chaotic Evil?

[hamishspence]

I think this is part of the Pact Primeval

Yup- the gods put Asmodeus on trial the first time, he explains how he and the other angels have followed their commands, and "therefore you may not cast us out".

[Lord_Gareth]

So they gave him a job being the only intelligent being in the multiverse?

[JonestheSpy]

So they gave him a job being the only intelligent being in the multiverse?

See, this is why I think the idea of taking the Codex for truth is so, shall we say, unappealing. It means you're running a cosmos (or playing in one) wherein the forces of Good are ultimately weak, stupid, and hypocritical. Which, y'know, is exactly what the denizens of the Hells would like people to believe. It appeals to a kind of base cynicism and admiration of power regardless how that power is used, but doesn't suit my game.

[Eldan]

See the story as propaganda as the Big A would write it: he's looking damn good and the heavens weak and stupid.

[SoC175]

At the time BoVD was written, Demogorgon was CR 30 and Asmodeus CR 32.

When the demon lords were revised in the Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles, Demogorgon became CR 33.

Note that the revision of the demonlord stats was made based on their aspects in FC1 (yes, the sentence proclaiming the following stats to be aspects failed to appear in FC1, one of the designers offered that it might have been cut during final editing but wasn't sure were it went). So the BoVD stats have no bearing on their 3.5e stats. You need to look at Asmo's aspect in FC2 and extrapolate from there.

[Xefas]

Actual alignment as according to Xefas:


The chart is my own handiwork. Nice, eh? Can you tell what my favorite alignment to play is? It's actually not Lawful Evil. I play Lawful Neutral because I prefer my Awesome to be unfettered by intelligence.

(If I still played D&D, that is )