[3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!

[Magicyop]

Pheolarch still needs some touch ups involving the capstone. Also you might want to add the Water Elemental to that list as it still needs to be checked.

Added them to the list, and am in the process of making superscript numbers which inform everyone on whether that monster has been critiqued, and its creator needs to make changes, or if it has been changed and is awaiting critique or approval to finish the class. As it should say under the list now, a 1 means the monster is waiting for critique or approval, a 2 means you need to get some changes done! I'll even try to make the 2's link to Gorgon's critique. How convenient is that?!?

...if it wasn't clear by now, I love formatting.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't like the alignment requirement. Most of the classes in this thread do away with them...
That said, I hate alignment requirements. Just personal and I have no right to force it on you.
The BAB and saves are strange. I assume that's a mistake?
Could you use BAB for a prereq instead of level? It feels more elegant IMO.
Other than that, only thing is it could use some cleaning up. There are some typos, a couple of things aren't clear... and tbh, Shadowy isn't a great word. XD Dark Deflection?
Just my two cents.

Thanks Lix.

The requirements, were took almost word by word from the requirements of the original template (it is an adquired template), so I figured out that leaving them almost the same would be nice and easy.

Yeah I messed up formatting the tables (I hate them); they were suposed to be medium BAB and all good saves.

I don't want to use BAB as pre-requisite, as I designed this class for any class to be able to take it; but maybe BAB +3 so that Full and Medium BAB classes could take at level 6 and Bad BAB classes at level 7.

What abilities need clearing up? I designed it so I know exactly what they are supposed to do, so I need to know which are wonky.

And yeah I couldn't came up for a better name than shadowy deflection, dark deflection rolls of the tongue much more nicely.

[Betropper]

Purple worm
I was looking over this guy because I needed scaling burrowing for a class I was working on, and thought I might as well toss in a critique while I was at it.

Initital reactions:

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What? no freman familar?
No fluff about crazy world dominating mad-men despretly seeking to mine your excrement?
No Sting in an overly decorated codpiece?
No Gom Jabbar?
No CG blue eyes?

Besides these silly initial reactions, here are some nitpicks, suggestions and thoughts.

Flexible might specify knocked prone instead of knocked down, unless it is immune to Garland's Monologueing.

Growth Why typically large/huge/gargantuan ?

Ram I'd go ahead an allow this to do extra damage against structures as well, but that's more of a suggestion.

Errupt Forth While I understand what 'tiles' means I think the term to be used is squares, or 5 foot squares. As that halfling bathhouses tend to have smaller tiles than Storm giant kitchens.

Swallow Whole The grapple check to do so must be a Pinning grapple check, or establishing a hold after the grapple has already been initiated?
I think it requires three holds to be established before a pin happens, but if it simply needs to begin the round grappling the opponent, and then succeed on a grapple check that only really requires two holds to be established... but I'm fuzzy on grapple rules.

The Bite damage for the stomach actually makes sense for the Purple Worm, because it's stomach would be more or less an extension of its toothy maw (in comparison to the WereDino where I said stomach damage should not equal bite damage because spells that enhance the teeth wouldn't enhance the stomach.)

However I believe the AC and HP of the worms gizzard should scale with character. I'm not certain how... maybe AC equals 10 + twice the purple worms natural armor bonus (con mod)? And Hp equal to.... uhm... well maybe 3 per HD (3x6=18.. so its less at 6th level but scales with character development)? I don't know.

Maul Seems to imply that the opponent chooses the ability damage. Is this intended. Also... this ability seems... powerful. Too powerful? Maybe. Too powerful with all the grapple fun the purple worm has... probably. Maybe limit it to uses per day? The ability damage, the Dazing is fine. I think.

Snap Jaws This seems far to powerful to be use activated at will.

All I can say otherwise is I love this class and I would totally play it. And probably find a way to get a fremen familiar.

And now to look over the Wereraptor.
Edit: I Looked.


Comments in Bold.
I'm highly recommending a Hybrid only power at L.4, it seems to me, that Humans are cool, and Dinos are cool, but whats cooler than a Human-Dino? A Human-Dino that can take advantage of the combination in a way that a Human or a Dino Cannot. But that's just me. As it stands, I'd lose the improved grab and go for rakes in its place. Improved grab doesn't make any sense for this beastie, but RAKING the hell out of something that it has caught, well, that's a different story.

And I just realized something. This is based off of the MEGAraptor, and not... the Velociraptor, isn't it.
This explains some of my initial confusion.
Also, I don't know Dinosaurs IRL or IRP, so my knowledge of what is appropriate here may be wrong, flavorwise.

All in all, its getting closer. But it needs something... spicy. Something to make it fun to play, and different than there werebas. So sort of Dino Specific Power. What could that be? I don't know. That's up to you.

Gonna edit those in a hour or two, can't right now.

New abilities also coming up, what do you think of a pack ability? something that allows them to call raptors in a mile or so radius to help fight like charm monster?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Sorry to be so pushy, but does anybody have some comments on my Shade? I really worked on it and would like to have some feedback (not that Lix's one was unwlecomed, but I want to hear more)

[Magicyop]

Sorry to be so pushy, but does anybody have some comments on my Shade? I really worked on it and would like to have some feedback (not that Lix's one was unwlecomed, but I want to hear more)

Try to be patient. I'll give some comments later tonight, but keep in mind that these things take time. You posted it earlier today. Check out the list I posted on the last page and look at the top, those monsters were posted a month ago and still aren't finished. Everyone works very hard on their monster classes, so I think we know how you feel, but rest assured, your hard work will not go unnoticed, you just need to be willing to wait, sit back, and take it easy.

[Gorgondantess]

I've been keeping tabs on this, but likely I won't be able to get some real work done until late friday at the earliest, mid sunday at the latest.
For the nonce:
Chumplump: No using the C-word. As in, critique. On non-lycanthropes, you comment and you discuss. I'd like to keep that distinction. However, your critique was more of comments, so I'll let it slide.

Shade: What book's it from? I've never seen it before. Anyways, as a pre-critique, remove the class progression; it's powerful enough without that. With it, it becomes quite broken.

[Lix Lorn]

Thanks Lix.

The requirements, were took almost word by word from the requirements of the original template (it is an adquired template), so I figured out that leaving them almost the same would be nice and easy.

Yeah I messed up formatting the tables (I hate them); they were suposed to be medium BAB and all good saves.

I don't want to use BAB as pre-requisite, as I designed this class for any class to be able to take it; but maybe BAB +3 so that Full and Medium BAB classes could take at level 6 and Bad BAB classes at level 7.

What abilities need clearing up? I designed it so I know exactly what they are supposed to do, so I need to know which are wonky.

And yeah I couldn't came up for a better name than shadowy deflection, dark deflection rolls of the tongue much more nicely.

Fair enough. The level thing was just because I hadn't seen it before. The alignment thing is a personal complaint-dark is not evil.

You fixed BAB/saves-but third level should be +2 bab.

If it was BAB +3, full classes could enter at level 3, medium at level 4 and bad at level 6.

They all make sense, it's just typos and things that slightly bug me. I have a load of stuff to do; else I'd go through them for you.

[Dusk Eclipse]

yeah I didn't saw the list.... then I'll try to be patient.

Gorgondantres: it is a template from Races of Faerun, is it really THAT broken with the class feture progression?

[Mystic Muse]

Sorry to be so pushy, but does anybody have some comments on my Shade? I really worked on it and would like to have some feedback (not that Lix's one was unwlecomed, but I want to hear more)

change all things that say "Character level" to "HD" to make it more consistent with the other classes please.

Shadow Clones(SLA): At level 4 Shades learn to weave illusions of themselves from stuff from the plane of shadows. They gain the ability to use Mirror Image as a spell like abiliy once per day per class ability. CL equals to character level.

Once a day per class ability? Can you clarify exactly what this means? Or simply change it to a number of HD?

In addition, the control light ability doesn't specify at what point the darkness equals shadowy illumination and the spell resistance doesn't seem like it should need shadowy illumation.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fair enough. The level thing was just because I hadn't seen it before. The alignment thing is a personal complaint-dark is not evil.

You fixed BAB/saves-but third level should be +2 bab.

If it was BAB +3, full classes could enter at level 3, medium at level 4 and bad at level 6.

They all make sense, it's just typos and things that slightly bug me. I have a load of stuff to do; else I'd go through them for you.[

:facepalm: errr.... that is why I prefered character/HD 5... I'll what I can do. and I will re-check to fix the typos.

change all things that say "Character level" to "HD" to make it more consistent with the other classes please.
Noted... hadn't check the thread on a while and didn't remember that HD was the norm

Once a day per class ability? Can you clarify exactly what this means? Or simply change it to a number of HD?
[B] Should have read Once per day per class level
In addition, the control light ability doesn't specify at what point the darkness equals shadowy illumination and the spell resistance doesn't seem like it should need shadowy illumation.
hmmm good question, I didn't really think about it... for now let's say.... 35 %?
The SR on shadowy illumination comes from the original template, all abilites of a shade only work while on shadowy illumination.

I think that¡s it

[Mystic Muse]

Okay, well, just make sure to clarify that 35% is what qualifies in the entry. I can see that becoming very annoying to decide for a DM and player.

[Gorgondantess]

Gorgondantres: it is a template from Races of Faerun, is it really THAT broken with the class feture progression?

Yep. If you're looking at the class feature progression, overall, imagine all of the abilities gained from the whole class as one level. Of course, if you're, say, a wizard, it's even better than that, because you get 3/4 BAB and all good save progression and better HD.
Think of loss vs. gain: you're losing one level for everything you get there. I'd add that class onto ANY character. Any. 'Cept maybe one that is starved for BAB or spellcaster levels, like maybe a sorc gish, but even then it's a pretty damn good choice.

[Niezck]

Uh, Draken or, in fact, anybody ... Which book are Nerra from? I'm looking to read up a bit on them before I play one. (The class, incidentally, is very cool. One minor thing though, the cone version of shard spray doesn't indicate whether it offers a reflex save and what the DC is of said save.)

[monkman]

Uh, Draken or, in fact, anybody ... Which book are Nerra from? I'm looking to read up a bit on them before I play one. (The class, incidentally, is very cool. One minor thing though, the cone version of shard spray doesn't indicate whether it offers a reflex save and what the DC is of said save.)

Fiend folio ,Page 128-130.

[Betropper]

Fixed up wereraptor some more.
look in changelog for details.
I think it's pretty sound except for maybe the last two abilities which I just added.

[Magicyop]

Unfinished Monsters by Original Post Date

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Water Elemental¹ - 10/02/2010
Dream Larva¹ - 10/07/2010
Phoelarch¹ - 10/09/2010
Malebranche² - 10/16/2010
Dwarf Ancestor² - 10/18/2010
SHADOWPERSON² - 10/19/2010
Black Dragon¹ - 10/19/2010
Lammasu² - 10/19/2010
Arcadian Avenger² - 10/20/2010
Purple Worm² - 10/21/2010
The Bleakborn² - 10/23/2010
Giths² - 10/23/2010
Brass Golem¹ - 10/24/2010
The WereScorpion² - 10/27/2010
Gargoyle² - 10/27/2010
Maug¹ - 10/29/2010
Saint¹ - 10/29/2010
Cheshire Cat¹ - 10/30/2010
Wereraptor¹ - 10/30/2010
Death Knight¹ - 10/31/2010 [Revised Class]
Osyluth (Bone Devil)¹ - 10/31/2010
Illurien¹ - 11/04/2010
Shade² - 11/04/2010

1: Awaiting critique or approval from Gorgondantess, or discussion from everyone.
2: Has been critiqued by Gorgondantess or other approved members (Hyudra, ChumpLump), and is awaiting the user to make the requested changes or otherwise edit.
Linked Numbers: If the number next to the class is a link, that means that it leads either to the current critique of the class (If the number is a 2) or to a post with the proposed changes by the user (If the number is a 1).


Current unfinished list, I can't find the critiques for Malebranche and Dwarf Ancestor to link them though... I hunted through the thread and found most of the other links-- so if the class is waiting for Gorgon to do something, it will have a 1, otherwise it will have a 2, and the 2 is a link to your critique.

[Crafty Cultist]

The advice I recieved for the bleakborn monster class was to make it more balanced next to the marrenoloth. I'm not that good a judge of balance, especially between a melee combatant and a spellcaster-ish character, so I'd appreciate some more specific advice.

[Magicyop]

The advice I recieved for the bleakborn monster class was to make it more balanced next to the marrenoloth. I'm not that good a judge of balance, especially between a melee combatant and a spellcaster-ish character, so I'd appreciate some more specific advice.

I suggested before that you take away "Your aura grants fast healing" and "Now, your touch heals you". And add a single ability at some level. This ability would basically just make it so that you regain 1 HP for every 2 points of cold damage you deal in any form. Whether it be through a spellcasting class or through the aura, you get healing. That's my opinion.

[Zemro]

Arcadian Avenger's blade rend should increase up to 7d6 at 20 HD.

Durr... that's a maths fail on my part, for some reason I thought there wasn't enough HD for another progression before hitting 20... embarrassing.

It seems a little unfair to limit it to slashing weapons only... and also, giving only the bastard sword or dwarven waraxe, and only with 13+ strength. Why not just give it proficiency with one exotic one-handed weapon of choice?

The EWP feats for Dwarven Waraxe and Bastard Sword have an additional prerequisite of 13 Str. I chose them because they were both one handed slashing weapons.

The focus on slashing weapons general is a reflection of the actual monster the class is based from. In the entry themselves they can only rend with their longswords, which is noted as their only typical possession. I expanded that to slashing weapons in general for the class for some more flexibility while giving some consideration for the monster itself.

I have no qualms with expanding Blade Rend to all weapons (though rending with a pair of clubs would be weird).

Text/table discrepancy on the last 2 levels.

Fixed.

Avenger's Wrath is both poorly worded and not very exciting. Granted, it gives pounce, but only in a very limited sense. It's also a lot to keep track of.
[contrived scenario]
Granted, that was a particularly contrived scenario, but you get the point. How about pounce & automatically confirming critical threats against any enemy threatening an ally, instead?

Well, the monster's original ability was simply a specific morale bonus on damage rolls for a short while after seeing an ally fall in battle. Since that's not really amazing, I decided to scale the bonus and make it a bit more applicable. The pounce was mainly an afterthought, as it seemed to be something that really meshes well with TWF. I'd never really considered bookkeeping difficulties though... I've got a good head for it myself so it's not something I think of.

I could get behind straight-up pounce and automatically confirming crits but I feel the capstone should be something a bit more interesting... Maybe retain the morale bonus in some form, granting it whenever she drops of foe in melee? Like a stacking +1 bonus and only if the dropped target is a threat of a high enough CR to award exp for defeating.

[monkman]

Magicyop, You/I forgot about the elder treant that was never finshed by niezck. It's on page 5 if i remeber correctly.

[Magicyop]

Thank you! Edited, and reposting it.

Unfinished Monsters by Original Post Date

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Water Elemental¹ - 10/02/2010
Elder Treant³ - 10/03/2010
Soulspark² - 10/06/2010
Dream Larva¹ - 10/07/2010
Phoelarch¹ - 10/09/2010
Living Spell³ - 10/10/2010
Malebranche² - 10/16/2010
Dwarf Ancestor² - 10/18/2010
SHADOWPERSON² - 10/19/2010
Black Dragon¹ - 10/19/2010
Lammasu² - 10/19/2010
Arcadian Avenger¹ - 10/20/2010
Purple Worm² - 10/21/2010
The Bleakborn² - 10/23/2010
Giths² - 10/23/2010
Brass Golem¹ - 10/24/2010
The WereScorpion¹ - 10/27/2010
Gargoyle² - 10/27/2010
Maug¹ - 10/29/2010
Saint¹ - 10/29/2010
Cheshire Cat¹ - 10/30/2010
Wereraptor² - 10/30/2010
Death Knight¹ - 10/31/2010 [Revised Class]
Osyluth (Bone Devil)¹ - 10/31/2010
Illurien¹ - 11/04/2010
Shade¹ - 11/04/2010

1: Awaiting critique or approval from Gorgondantess, or discussion from everyone.
2: Has been critiqued by Gorgondantess or other approved members (Hyudra, ChumpLump), and is awaiting the user to make the requested changes or otherwise edit.
3: Abandoned, either temporarily or permanently.
Linked Numbers: If the number next to the class is a link, that means that it leads either to the current critique of the class (If the number is a 2) or to a post with the proposed changes by the user (If the number is a 1).

[Niezck]

Magicyop, You/I forgot about the elder treant that was never finshed by niezck. It's on page 5 if i remeber correctly.

And the Soulspark.

I've abandoned the Elder Treant, and the Soulspark will be updated when I get some free time (not looking likely in the near future).

[Magicyop]

And the Soulspark.

I've abandoned the Elder Treant, and the Soulspark will be updated when I get some free time (not looking likely in the near future).

Would you mind linking the Soulspark so I can add to list?

Would you rather I leave the Elder Treant on the list and mark it as abandoned, so people can still find the draft, or would you rather I just remove it from the list? For now I just marked it as abandoned (With a 3)

[Niezck]

Would you mind linking the Soulspark so I can add to list?

Would you rather I leave the Elder Treant on the list and mark it as abandoned, so people can still find the draft, or would you rather I just remove it from the list?

I'll find it in a little while. It's very early on though, within the first 10 pages I think.

Whichever you prefer.

[monkman]

And the Soulspark.

I've abandoned the Elder Treant, and the Soulspark will be updated when I get some free time (not looking likely in the near future).

Would i be able to recontinue your work? For the elder treant once the maug is finshed, I wouldnt want to see that work go to waste.

[Niezck]

Would i be able to recontinue your work? For the elder treant once the maug is finshed, I wouldnt want to see that work go to waste.

Sure. Just keep in mind it's intended as an extension of my Treant class, so it should probably keep the same kind of theme.

[Magicyop]

Added the Soulspark. I also found the Living Spell while looking for the Soulspark, I have catalogued that, put it into the list, but marked it as abandoned. It's understood that it's unfinished, and maybe never will be, but it's good to have it linked to so it doesn't get lost forever, in case someone wants to use it in its unfinished state or pick it up and finish it some day.

I'm rather pleased with how the 'unfinished' list looks currently (apart from the sheer number of unfinished of course), does anyone have any suggestions to make it easier to use?

[monkman]

[SPOILER]

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Maug

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{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|

+1

|

+0

|

+0

|

+0

| Construct Body,Pulverize,+1Str
2nd|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|

+0

|Graft,+1Str
3rd|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|

+1

|Rapid Repair,Growth +1str
[/table]
HD=D10

Skills 2+int modifier(x4 at first lv) Class skills Craft,Intimidate,Knowledge(architecture andengineering),Listen,Profession (siege engineer and soldier),Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: A maug gains proficiency with all armor,all sheild(including tower shields) simple and martial weapons

Construct Body :The Maug loses all racial modifiers and receives the Construct type (which grants darkvision 60'), medium size, 40 ft. land speed, and 2 natural slam attacks dealing 1d8+strength modifier damage.A maug is able to wear armor.

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• No Constitution score.

• Darkvision out to 60 feet.

• Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

• Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.

• Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, ability damage, fatigue or exhaustion, or energy drain

• Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

• Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed

• Never being alive to begin with, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. It can only be revived by a wish, limited wish, miracle, or by reconstructing the Maug's body (requiring 10000 gp worth of specially treated alloys- or the golem's previous body, and a DC 18 Stonecrafting check) and then a reincarnate spell, which will always put the Maug's soul into the new effigy.

• Constructs does not breathe, eat, or sleep.

A maug also gains natural armor equal to it’s strength modifier

The maugs also get a +4 bonus to Craft (stonemasonry) and Knowledge (architecture and engineering) checks.

The Golem also gains +1 HP per HD at 5 HD. This bonus increases to +2 at 10 HD, +3 at 15 HD, and +4 at 20 HD.

Pulverize: 1 time per Hd per day. A maug is able to overcome any DR and hardness of an object or creature with all it's attack for 1 round.

Rapid Repair: A Maug gains fast healing equal to half his HD.

Growth: A muag grows to large size.

Grafts:

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Shoving arm
The shoving arm is attached to the waist of a maug. This arm allows the maug to make a bull rushed attack with no attack of oppertunity each round.

Shudder plate
A maug with a shudder plate gains the tremorsense ability with a range of 5ft/3HD.The shudder plate takes no item slot and it still permits the wear of armor.

Wrist Razors:
Various retractable spikes, blades and appendages spring out from around and on the maug's hand: its slam attacks now deal piercing and slashing.The damage of the maug's slam also increase by one step.
Long Legs:
The Maug gains Run as a bonus feat, gets a bonus to jump checks equal to 1/2 his HD, and gains a +10' bonus to move speed.

Stone Spiliter
With the stone spilter graft a maug is now able to fire bullets that damage 1d6 (for a medium sized maug) with a critical of 19/20X2. A maug is able to fire 1 bullet a round.It can hold up to 50 sling bullets.This graft reloads automaticly.

Grappling Hook:
The Maug gains a chain & hook attached to his palm and spooled in his arm, which he can launch up to a distance of 30 feet plus 5 per HD, as a ranged touch attack. If successful, the Maug makes a grapple check as if he had the improved grapple feat. If successful, the foe is dragged into the Maug's square or the Maug is dragged to the foe's square (Maug's choice), and the grapple goes on as normal.
An additional application of this upgrade allows the Maug to deal an additional 1d8+strength modifier (or 2d6+str if large sized) constriction damage each turn of the grapple.

For the grafts, should i give them every level? or maybe some(~2) at level 2.

Anyone know of any other grafts that i can put for my maug

[NecroticPunch]

[SPOILER]Anyone know of any other grafts that i can put for my maug

Perhaps you could make a retractable crossbow type dealy-o, or maybe locking legs, or maybe something that increases armor, or maybe a digging tool... I have no idea.

[Stycotl]

[SPOILER]Anyone know of any other grafts that i can put for my maug

look to the warforged components and feats as ideas for new grafts. also, a bunch of the other grafts (illithid, demon, etc), would just need to be refluffed for use with maug.