Best Prc's for a rogue?

[zenanarchist]

So... I have a rogue pixie.

Said rogue pixie has a dexterity around 30.
Intelligence high
Charisma high
Strength pitiful
Constitution, oddly, high.

Taking into consideration that she currently has hand crossbow focus and point blank shot, what is the most beneficial route for me from here?

Prc wise, obviously I could stay rogue, but I'm looking for optimisation as well as flavour.

She favours using eternal wands of ventriloquism to draw attention away from her real position, sneak attacks with her hand crossbow.

EDIT: Whoops! Books: All core. Online: SRD and Crystal keep. Or...any other source you can actually link to.

[Master Thrower]

Invisible blade or Master thrower i believe both are good choices.

[zenanarchist]

Invisible blade or Master thrower i believe both are good choices.

Throwers out. Due to me using hand crossbow!

Invisible blade...I've not seen before? Details?

Thanks for the help!

[HunterOfJello]

Tier System for PrCs would be a good place to start.


My immediate thought is a swordsage dip, although that's not exactly core.

~

Avoid Assassin.

There are lots of Psionic PrCs online that favor the rogue. I don't have much experience for those though.

[zenanarchist]

Tier System for PrCs would be a good place to start.


My immediate thought is a swordsage dip, although that's not exactly core.

~

Avoid Assassin.

There are lots of Psionic PrCs online that favor the rogue. I don't have much experience for those though.

Avoid assassin? Truly? That was my first choice. lol.

What would sword sage dip get me? Out of sheer curiousity?

[HunterOfJello]

What would sword sage dip get me? Out of sheer curiousity?

That depends on your level. If you're already at Rogue 4, then you'd get some really awesome stuff like:

One 1st level stance
Six 1st and 2nd level maneuvers

~

I just have a general dislike for Assassin characters. They are better than plain rogue.

Avengers are good too (Assassin that isn't chaotic and doesn't have to be evil.)
~

Also, the Rogue's Handbook might be useful.

[zenanarchist]

That depends on your level. If you're already at Rogue 4, then you'd get some really awesome stuff like:

One 1st level stance
Six 1st and 2nd level maneuvers


~

Also, the Rogue's Handbook might be useful.

I love handbooks. lol. Thanks!

Also, I've got no idea what stances or maneuvers do, never read the ToB!

[Glimbur]

Assassin isn't all bad. Qualification is easy. You lose 4 skill points a level and rogue special abilities. In exchange, you get spells, uncanny dodge, and eventually hide in plain sight (a decent kind, within 10' of shadow). Ignore that ability called Death Attack unless you're setting an ambush... three rounds of combat are a terrible waste for an attack that might miss and might be saved against.

Personally, I'd go for it if I had spell compendium, as assassins got some nice spells there. Otherwise, rogue specials (Crippling Strike, mostly) are too good to give up and the skill point differential hurts.

ToB is pretty handy once you get the hang of it.

[Godskook]

Avoid assassin? Truly? That was my first choice. lol.

What would sword sage dip get me? Out of sheer curiousity?

You can get 2d6 SA in 1 level if you dip at the right time and pick the right stance.

(That right time would be your 9th level)

In theory, you could get all this, 1/combat(choose 4 at start of day, change with 5 minute's effort):
-Swift action move
-Concentration check instead of save(1/each)
-Swift action greater invisibility till end of turn
-Standard action 50' teleport

And wait, there's more!

Act now, and I'll throw in:
+1 to initiative
+1 to attack rolls with almost any weapon(choose weapons in group)

Admittedly, the class is slightly front-loaded, but you can benefit from leveling it too, since higher level maneuvers scale to be of better use than low-level ones. The highest teleport maneuver is a swift action, for instance, instead of a standard action.

[zenanarchist]

You can get 2d6 SA in 1 level if you dip at the right time and pick the right stance.

(That right time would be your 9th level)

In theory, you could get all this, 1/combat(choose 4 at start of day, change with 5 minute's effort):
-Swift action move
-Concentration check instead of save(1/each)
-Swift action greater invisibility till end of turn
-Standard action 50' teleport

And wait, there's more!

Act now, and I'll throw in:
+1 to initiative
+1 to attack rolls with almost any weapon(choose weapons in group)

Admittedly, the class is slightly front-loaded, but you can benefit from leveling it too, since higher level maneuvers scale to be of better use than low-level ones. The highest teleport maneuver is a swift action, for instance, instead of a standard action.

Holy wow. Win for that!

[SurlySeraph]

Yeah, SS dips are great for rogues.

Another common strategy is to take one level each in a bunch of classes that give +1d6 Sneak Attack at first level. Sneak Attack Fighter variant, Spellthief, Psychic Rogue, Assassin, Nightsong Enforcer, etc.

If you want to cast spells as well, a couple levels in Wizard or Sorcerer and then into Unseen Seer is great. Daggerspell Mage also has applications.

[zenanarchist]

Yeah, SS dips are great for rogues.

Another common strategy is to take one level each in a bunch of classes that give +1d6 Sneak Attack at first level. Sneak Attack Fighter variant, Spellthief, Psychic Rogue, Assassin, Nightsong Enforcer, etc.

If you want to cast spells as well, a couple levels in Wizard or Sorcerer and then into Unseen Seer is great. Daggerspell Mage also has applications.

No interest in casting spells. But you get a win button for the one level dip in multiple classes suggestion!. SS, SAFV, ST, PR, A, NE it is!!

[gallagher]

i actually like dipping into crusader to get the stance that makes all threatened squares difficult territory. easier to sneak attack. i also prefer the maneuver regaining method

[zenanarchist]

i actually like dipping into crusader to get the stance that makes all threatened squares difficult territory. easier to sneak attack. i also prefer the maneuver regaining method

Yep. Still lost. I think I need to read ToB

[Eldariel]

i actually like dipping into crusader to get the stance that makes all threatened squares difficult territory. easier to sneak attack. i also prefer the maneuver regaining method

No such stance. There's a stance that makes all movement provoke AoOs. You're thinking of Knight's [PHBII] class feature. It can also be argued that you can only pick 1st level stances on the 1st level you pick in the class. But it can be argued another way as well. *shrug*

[Dralnu]

Er, don't you have to pick a 1st level stance when you initially dip into swordsage, regardless of IL? You'd have to be swordsage 2 or use a feat for assassin's stance I think.

[Ravens_cry]

Shadow Dancer, despite some weird prerequisites, gives HiPS at first level, the 10 feet of a shadow, kind which can include your buddies shadow. If you want to be a ranged sneak attacker, it's probably pretty good for a dip.

[zenanarchist]

Shadow Dancer, despite some weird prerequisites, gives HiPS at first level, the 10 feet of a shadow, kind which can include your buddies shadow. If you want to be a ranged sneak attacker, it's probably pretty good for a dip.

I have considered that and it does sound pretty darned good for a one level dip!

[jgumbyrx]

with a rogue with a dex of 30, 2 feats come immediately to mind:
- crossbow sniper (PHB2)
- dead eye (Dragon Compendium/drag.mag.#304)

that is all. :twocents:

[zenanarchist]

with a rogue with a dex of 30, 2 feats come immediately to mind:
- crossbow sniper (PHB2)
- dead eye (Dragon Compendium/drag.mag.#304)

that is all. :twocents:

Crossbow Sniper I'm taking. That one stuck out immediately.

But....Dead eye? Do go on.

[jgumbyrx]

Crossbow Sniper I'm taking. That one stuck out immediately.

But....Dead eye? Do go on.

use FULL dex bonus for ranged wpn with which you have wpn focus (but does nothing in relation to sneak attack, where xbow sniper does)
has additional prereq of point blank shot (which you already seem to have)



for some reason, [ambush] feats spring to mind for this character (more of a flavor thing, but still good)

[zenanarchist]

use FULL dex bonus for ranged wpn with which you have wpn focus (but does nothing in relation to sneak attack, where xbow sniper does)
has additional prereq of point blank shot (which you already seem to have)



for some reason, [ambush] feats spring to mind for this character (more of a flavor thing, but still good)

Ambush feats? You mean like Spring attack etc?

What does xbow sniper do for sneak attack (apart from range, or is that what you meant?)

[Ravens_cry]

Why are you using the Hand Crossbow? It's range increment is pathetic and it still, unless you burn ANOTHER feat, needs a move action to reload.

[zenanarchist]

Why are you using the Hand Crossbow? It's range increment is pathetic and it still, unless you burn ANOTHER feat, needs a move action to reload.

Hand Crossbow Focus- Essentially Hand crossbow focus and free action reload in one feat. Non?

[true_shinken]

Ambush feats? You mean like Spring attack etc?

What does xbow sniper do for sneak attack (apart from range, or is that what you meant?)

He meant range.

Ambush feats trade sneak attack dice for extra effects. Arterial Strike, for example, makes your oppononet bleed for 1 pointo of damage each round. Staggering Strike halves his speed. There are a few more.

[zenanarchist]

He meant range.

Ambush feats trade sneak attack dice for extra effects. Arterial Strike, for example, makes your oppononet bleed for 1 pointo of damage each round. Staggering Strike halves his speed. There are a few more.

Ah yes, I saw those. Was not too fond. I think I'd prefer damage ;-)

Or things that let me beat the crap out of constructs, plants and undead.

[Ravens_cry]

Hand Crossbow Focus- Essentially Hand crossbow focus and free action reload in one feat. Non?

Sorry, I am only really families with Core and SRD. That sounds nice, but you still have to deal with the dinky 10 foot range increment. And you still have to be proficient with it.

[Temotei]

Avoid assassin? Truly? That was my first choice.

Assassin's pretty good with spells drawn from sources other than core. I wouldn't throw it out as an option.

[zenanarchist]

Sorry, I am only really families with Core and SRD. That sounds nice, but you still have to deal with the dinky 10 foot range increment. And you still have to be proficient with it.

30 ft range increment. Also, rogues automatically proficient with hand crossbows. Win for Zen.

Assassin's pretty good with spells drawn from sources other than core. I wouldn't throw it out as an option.

Yeah I heard that if I want to take assassin I'd need the spell compendium!

[Ravens_cry]

30 ft range increment. Also, rogues automatically proficient with hand crossbows. Win for Zen.

Win indeed. My mistake.