Human Paragon?

[mootoall]

What exactly is the Human Paragon class? Is it any good? Where might I find it? Benefits? Drawbacks? Class features? Sorry for the blunt question, fairly exhausted for the day.

[Thurbane]

You can find it in the UA section of the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...gonClasses.htm

It's not bad, and can be quite good for specific builds. 2/3 CL advancement, customizable skill list, bonus feat and ability boost aren't too shabby.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I like to use it in Gishy builds, something like wiz 1/human paragon 3/ wiz + 2 is a nice entry for some classes imo. The + 2 to any stat is nifty and who doesn't loves bonus feats? Plus the select your class skills is quite nice to enter some classes more easily.

[hotel_papa]

Hah! I was just re-reading old threads of mine while waiting for someone to check out my necromancer question. I posted a thread on the paragon classes, asking if people were into them.

Personally, I like them a lot. Great flavor. A lot of people swear by the human and elf ones for gish builds, as 2/3 BAB and 2/3 casting, with a +2 Ability Score to offset MAD is pretty tasty for a class with no prerequisites.

I also liked the novelty of a Red Dragon Bloodline Half-Orc being able to get to level 9 without taking a base class level. And having 27 Str to show for it. 31 raging.

[Thurbane]

...yep - entry into PrCs is one of the big uses of Human Paragon, particularly those that have awkward skill reqs.

[Crow]

I would love to use the class, but just cannot find a character that would fit the archetype of a human "paragon".

[mootoall]

This actually may be perfect for me! Ranger multiclassing out at 7 (the first useless level), and I still get my extra spell per day! Wonderful!

[Totally Guy]

That'd be perfect for my Wizard/Prestige Bard idea. Casting from Int, that's a lot of skill points.

[Soranar]

Usually, you take it for entry into a PrC, as Thurbane pointed out. It's not too shabby in itself mind

the bonus feat, extra skills and STAT increase in nothing to scoff at when you get extra caster levels on top of that

what makes it truly shine, like most paragon classes, is the no requirement thing

if you want to try and max out it's usefulness in a strange skillmonkey build that doesn't require you to take factotum levels

you can gain access to Iajutsu focus, UMD, hide/move silently, search, spot, listen, survival, spellcraft

and you get an extra feat to compensate for you taking able learner at level 1 on top of a +2 to any stat

I'd mostly recommend it to casting characters though, to maximize it's usefulness

[Greenish]

The half-orc paragon is one of the few ways to gain a rage as a lawful character.

[Prime32]

I would love to use the class, but just cannot find a character that would fit the archetype of a human "paragon".

I think you're reading too much into names. It just represents generic skill.

Replace "paragon" with "prodigy", see if that helps.

[AugustNights]

I would love to use the class, but just cannot find a character that would fit the archetype of a human "paragon".

Jack of all trades, master of most?
I find the Chameleon Class from either Bard or Wizard makes for an excellent 'Paragon' of Humans. If you are looking for Human Paragon Character-traits, it seems most Paragons of Humans are those who overcome Human nature, rather than embrace it.

[FyreByrd]

This actually may be perfect for me! Ranger multiclassing out at 7 (the first useless level), and I still get my extra spell per day! Wonderful!

Although you'll have to check with your DM, especially if he has some strange multi-classing rules, that means that Human Paragon isn't possible!

[mootoall]

DAMN YOU FYREBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYRD! *Meowth balloon flies off into the sky*

[OldFart]

Plus the select your class skills is quite nice to enter some classes more easily.

Declaring one of those as a class skill in perpetuity is also pretty nice. Makes things like qualifying for Sublime Chord though a series of non-bard classes a lot easier. Human Paragon also grants proficiency with one martial weapon, which is useful for Abjurant Champion builds.

Since there's no requirements (other than racial) for HP, and since the CL increases do not start until level 2, HP 1/caster class 1/HP 2-3 is a viable alternative to Rogue 1/caster class 1-3 for first 4 levels for builds needing skill points but not needing sneak attack.

[herrhauptmann]

Although you'll have to check with your DM, especially if he has some strange multi-classing rules, that means that Human Paragon isn't possible!

The paragon classes all state specifically that they don't count against you for determining XP penalties for multiclass characters. They're also not prestige classes, so you'd be ok for games where DM says "Only 1 prestige class". The problem becomes if your DM declares them to be base classes like the fighter or wizard, and says you may only take 1 base class.

Mind you, I've been eye-ing them as an idea for several different things. Level 3 game, everyone takes 3 levels in their paragon class, before taking a regular class. When you take a casting class, your CL boost from paragon can only match your actual CL from a real class. Like human paragon 3 (+2 CL)/wiz1 has a CL 2, when he hits wiz 2, he's got a CL 4. Would really do a job of showing that 'quick learner' feature of humanity.
I also have been wanting to do a halfogre-halforc halforc paragon/stoneblessed:gnome/gnome paragon/warhulk/gnome giantslayer.
Not quite as bad as the Tiny Small McLarge Von Huge someone else made, but interesting...

[grarrrg]

I also liked the novelty of a Red Dragon Bloodline Half-Orc being able to get to level 9 without taking a base class level. And having 27 Str to show for it. 31 raging.

Either I'll correct you, or you'll correct me, but that doesn't sound right. 3 different paragon classes?

(Edit: deleted arguement, see below...)

[JaxGaret]

Either I'll correct you, or you'll correct me, but that doesn't sound right. 3 different paragon classes?
(spoilered for length)

Spoiler

Show

Level 9? According to the SRD (as I can freely pull/quote from it) each character can only take 1 Paragon class, with a specific exception made for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs (third paragraph down)
"Half-elves and half-orcs are an exception; see the Half-Elf Paragon and Half-Orc Paragon sections below."
The exception is phrased as an extra ability granted
"Divided Ancestry (Ex)
Unlike other racial paragons, half-orcs can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a half-orc paragon, a character can take either orc paragon levels or human paragon levels (but not both)." (replace "Orc" with "Elf" for the Half-Elf)
I assume you saw this, which is (probably) why you included the Dragon Bloodline for access to your third paragon class.
But, the Half-Dragon Paragon explicity DOES NOT have this ability.

Now, granted, the SRD/PHB/what-have-you, was originally written BEFORE there were a thousand and one different templates and such to confuse things horribly, so...
While it doesn't explicitly say "one paragon per character", it IS implied through the "Divided Ancestry" ability that there is normally only one Paragon per character.

Long story short, what's the ruling on this? RAW? RAI?

Third option, I shall correct you.

Red Dragon Major Bloodline + Half-Orc Paragon 3 + Human Paragon 3 = 8th level character with zero base class levels.

[grarrrg]

Third option, I shall correct you.

Red Dragon Major Bloodline + Half-Orc Paragon 3 + Human Paragon 3 = 8th level character with zero base class levels.

Sorry, part of my brain assumed that "Red Dragon Bloodline" was a template or something that I wasn't familiar with.

stupid Unearthed Arcana...

[Coidzor]

Third option, I shall correct you.

Red Dragon Major Bloodline + Half-Orc Paragon 3 + Human Paragon 3 = 8th level character with zero base class levels.

Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

So... Yeah, they'd have 8 levels, but their ECL would only be 6.

[hotel_papa]

No one said it was optimized, just a novelty. Mind you, this was back in the day when Unearthed Arcana first came out. Also, I meant to say that the ninth level would be his first level of a base class. Blah blah blah, whatever.