[3.5] Using a Staff

[DwarfFighter]

Let me see if I got this right.

A staff uses the spell trigger activation method: "Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell." This means a character with a class with a spell list (e.g. Wizard, Ranger, Paladin) can use any spells provided by the staff that is also a part of one or more of his character classes' spell lists, right?

I take it that the character does not need to know the spell in question.

So if a Rogue wants to use a staff he needs to make a Use Magic Device check (DC 20) to emulate a class that has an appropriate spell list for the spell in question.

-DF

[Eloel]

Actually:

Use a Wand

Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

Using a wand is DC20.
I fail to see what you're trying to get to.

Edit: Though I now wonder what would happen if you buffed UMD high, and got something like 75 (possible, try take10 with warlock), to emulate 60 Int. Would that give the staff-spell +25 DC?

[Hague]

It uses the wielder's score. If you emulate as cleric, it uses your wisdom bonus/penalty, for instance.

[DwarfFighter]

I fail to see what you're trying to get to.

I'm looking for the proper Use Magic Device skill check DC for using a staff. Which, apparently, is the same as using a wand. And the same as emulating a class.

-DF

[ericgrau]

You don't emulate a class. It's a DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Some magic items have special requirements. Perhaps one could have the require "Wielder must have the smite evil class feature". Most magic items don't require this second check.

[Keld Denar]

Wands are pre-programmed to always be the same for any user. The advantage of a staff, however, is that it uses the pre-programmed stats of the staff, or the stats of the wielder, whichever is higher.

So a rogue with a 10 Wisdom could cast Heal from a staff with a DC20 UMD check, and it would be CL11, and if used offensively vs undead, would have a DC of 19 (6th level spell + 16 wisdom = DC19). If the rogue had a wisdom of 20 (or could fake it with a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would have a DC of 20 instead of 19. If the rogue could emulate a CL of 15 (a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would cast heal at CL15.

[Duke of URL]

Here's the breakdown:

Use a Wand

Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

Staffs use the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it’s higher than the caster level of the staff.

Assuming a Rogue here (or other non-spellcaster), they can UMD a staff at the staff's caster level (since it is greater than their own) on a DC 20 UMD check if they have the requisite ability score. If not, they need to emulate the ability score in question, which requires a check result of 25 + spell level.

[Eloel]

Wands are pre-programmed to always be the same for any user. The advantage of a staff, however, is that it uses the pre-programmed stats of the staff, or the stats of the wielder, whichever is higher.

So a rogue with a 10 Wisdom could cast Heal from a staff with a DC20 UMD check, and it would be CL11, and if used offensively vs undead, would have a DC of 19 (6th level spell + 16 wisdom = DC19). If the rogue had a wisdom of 20 (or could fake it with a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would have a DC of 20 instead of 19. If the rogue could emulate a CL of 15 (a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would cast heal at CL15.

The question I have is, if rogue can fake a 60 ability score by getting 75 on UMD, do they have +25 DC to the spell? Also in case of high UMD for CL, can a Rogue essentially use a Staff of Wings of Flurry to cause more damage than a Sorcerer using the same staff (WoF is chosen to ignore caps)?

[Duke of URL]

So a rogue with a 10 Wisdom could cast Heal from a staff with a DC20 UMD check, and it would be CL11, and if used offensively vs undead, would have a DC of 19 (6th level spell + 16 wisdom = DC19). If the rogue had a wisdom of 20 (or could fake it with a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would have a DC of 20 instead of 19. If the rogue could emulate a CL of 15 (a DC 35 UMD check), the staff would cast heal at CL15.

I disagree. It may be questionable as to whether or not the rogue can cast that heal at all without the requisite ability score (or UMD check to emulate it), but if (s)he does not emulate a higher ability score, the staff would use his/her ability score for determining the DC, not the minimum ability score. The description for staffs regarding using the staff's own minimum minimum only applies to caster level, not ability score.

There is also nothing in the UMD description that allows for emulating a caster level; therefore a staff with CL 11 would always cast at CL 11 for someone using it with UMD (presuming they don't have a caster level higher than 11).

The question I have is, if rogue can fake a 60 ability score by getting 75 on UMD, do they have +25 DC to the spell? Also in case of high UMD for CL, can a Rogue essentially use a Staff of Wings of Flurry to cause more damage than a Sorcerer using the same staff (WoF is chosen to ignore caps)?

UMD says "Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15". If you use UMD to emulate an ability score, you'd get whatever that value was.

As noted above, there is no listed use for UMD to emulate a caster level.

[Tyndmyr]

SRD:
Emulate an Ability Score
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.



It seems quite clear that this is a check for acheiving the minimum ability score to cast. Bonus CL based on doing better on the check is not mentioned anywhere. Im quite sure you would still use the scrolls CL.

Therefore, it also does not affect damage from the staff, because it doesn't actually say it does.

[DwarfFighter]

I concur. Using the staff will require a Use Magic Device check (DC 20) to properly activate.

-DF