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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Stepping on someone.

    I've created a recent level 1 build, that is max/mined so the character weights 14,000 lbs while being medium size. So I'm wondering, are there actually any rules about doing something about what would happen if I say, had my character knock a character prone and then step on them. (To put this in perspective 14,000 lbs is about 3 times the weight of a standard care, and rivals the weight of an elephant).

    The character is medium size.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Not without a trample attack or some other listed quality.

    You could always optimize jump. The rules for falling objects are partially based on weight. There is build that makes use of that somewhere...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    How, exactly, do you cram 14,000 lb. into a medium-sized character? I'd like to know.
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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    You'd better hope you don't stand on anything but solid granite.

    Anyway, an elephant's trample does 2d8+15, and that's because of its 30 strength.
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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgnslyr View Post
    How, exactly, do you cram 14,000 lb. into a medium-sized character? I'd like to know.
    You start with an antro small monsterous scorpion. Using the square-cube rule. A 2.25 inch scorpion that weights 60 grams, would weight 1.9 tonnes as a 6 foot person.

    Next I take 2 flaws. Then I take willing deform, and deform obese (3x weight BOVD), and then a feat from DR324 called "stocky" which increases weight by 10%. This makes my character weigh around 6.6 tonnes, approx 14,000 lbs. Neither feat however increases her size, so she is still technically medium size.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    I would be very careful about using the word realism anywhere near that character when you ask the GM about using your mass as a weapon, as while a GM might allow you to crush people using your mass, he could also impose massive penalties to Climb and Swim checks (as your Strength is insufficient to effectively manage your mass) infact he might even rule that walking is a difficulty due to your extreme bulk. Also floors could crack under your weight causing you to be unwelcome in structures made for people (inns, taverns), you would be allowed access to places animals would normally be kept (as they have more similar masses) rather than where people are allowed (as you would fall through the floor)

    Also dont get knocked unconcious as the party will have to either leave you or wait for you to awaken as there is no way in hell they can even drag you. This also prevents the party lifting you aboard a boat when you get knocked off (however if there is no change to swim or climb checks you can still save yourself its just outside aid that becomes difficult by RAW)

    As a plus you never have to worry about being taken prisoner unless your foes possess some means of transporting such large masses (of course this is more likely to see you dead instead of imprisioned as they cant just leave you there to come rescue your friends).

    All in all its going to depend on how much your GM is willing to bend the rules to allow such a character most likely there will be some penalties beyond the normal mechanical ones if he allows options beyond the norm (like those in the firsts paragraph) however you will still have the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs penalties just from RAW.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Aaaand that's why scaling bugs up doesn't make much sense. Do the rules really say you "scale up" like that?
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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefingers View Post
    I would be very careful about using the word realism anywhere near that character when you ask the GM about using your mass as a weapon, as while a GM might allow you to crush people using your mass, he could also impose massive penalties to Climb and Swim checks (as your Strength is insufficient to effectively manage your mass) infact he might even rule that walking is a difficulty due to your extreme bulk. Also floors could crack under your weight causing you to be unwelcome in structures made for people (inns, taverns), you would be allowed access to places animals would normally be kept (as they have more similar masses) rather than where people are allowed (as you would fall through the floor)

    Also dont get knocked unconcious as the party will have to either leave you or wait for you to awaken as there is no way in hell they can even drag you. This also prevents the party lifting you aboard a boat when you get knocked off (however if there is no change to swim or climb checks you can still save yourself its just outside aid that becomes difficult by RAW)

    As a plus you never have to worry about being taken prisoner unless your foes possess some means of transporting such large masses (of course this is more likely to see you dead instead of imprisioned as they cant just leave you there to come rescue your friends).

    All in all its going to depend on how much your GM is willing to bend the rules to allow such a character most likely there will be some penalties beyond the normal mechanical ones if he allows options beyond the norm (like those in the firsts paragraph) however you will still have the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs penalties just from RAW.
    Thank you for all that very smart insight. Actually this build is more a test to see how fat I can make a medium sized character. I don't intend to actually use her this way, it would just be...stupid. I am a munchkin but I play the game for fun.

    And yes the rules do work that way. In order to keep things in ratio, every time you double the height of someone, you have to double width and length too, increasing volume (and therefore weight) by 8 times. (This is just dnd it's actually how it would work in real life).
    Last edited by Morithias; 2010-10-09 at 12:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Actually, the square cube law isn't how D&D size increases scale. Each time your size increases, you double your weight, not multiply times a factor of eight.

    You would actually weigh, with a 60 gram starting scorpion, a "whopping" 3.1*120 grams, or 372 grams. You've actually got a medium character that weighs less than a pound.

    Your method mixes the real world and D&D in a way that is, like the commoner railgun, interesting but not RAW.

    EDIT: Rereading, this isn't strictly true. Objects double in weight with each size increase, but creatures have no listed increase in weight by RAW. Of course, since, by RAW, weight is near entirely meaningless, who cares?
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-10-09 at 12:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Actually, the square cube law isn't how D&D size increases scale. Each time your size increases, you double your weight, not multiply times a factor of eight.

    You would actually weigh, with a 60 gram starting scorpion, a "whopping" 3.1*120 grams, or 372 grams. You've actually got a medium character that weighs less than a pound.

    Your method mixes the real world and D&D in a way that is, like the commoner railgun, interesting but not RAW.
    I thought the square cube law was how it worked. Or is that just the enlarge person spell?

    And that 60 gram is like a real life scorpion, not the monster I used.
    Last edited by Morithias; 2010-10-09 at 12:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    I thought the square cube law was how it worked. Or is that just the enlarge person spell?

    And that 60 gram is like a real life scorpion, not the monster I used.
    I edited; for objects the rule is clear, for creatures it is never listed in advancement. Enlarge person is a specific spell, so I guess you could take the rules from there... but then it's still 8x weight per size category, not the square cube law.

    Also, a small monstrous scorpion is far bigger than a couple inches long and weighs 5-50 pounds, by RAW. So, at best, by advancing it, you'd get a 400 pound medium monstrous scorpion... which is below the max weight for a medium creature.

    If you were using an actually tiny scorpion weighing 1/8th of a pound (max for tiny), somehow enlarged up to medium, it would still only weigh 512 pounds.

    EDIT: Basically, I don't think you've even used RAW at any point; your "small" monstrous scorpion is the size and weight of a tiny creature, yet you enlarge person it to medium and use different rules for increasing the weight of it than the ones in enlarge person. Really, all this shows is that real life scorpions are pretty dense.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-10-09 at 12:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefingers View Post
    I would be very careful about using the word realism anywhere near that character.
    This. Fantasy biology and physics have only a passing acquaintance with their real-world brethren, and insisting that this character follows real-world physics would result in her quickly and messily expiring. This is not a path you want to go down.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    I'd think an Obese Goliath would be the easiest way to get an overweight Medium character within RAW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    Actually this build is more a test to see how fat I can make a medium sized character. I don't intend to actually use her this way, it would just be...stupid.
    Oh. Well, you can step on a target as an unarmed attack.

    -DF

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    Morph Bark's Avatar

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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    You start with an antro small monsterous scorpion. Using the square-cube rule. A 2.25 inch scorpion that weights 60 grams, would weight 1.9 tonnes as a 6 foot person.
    Mind telling me how you got an anthro small monstrous scorpion in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Actually, the square cube law isn't how D&D size increases scale. Each time your size increases, you double your weight, not multiply times a factor of eight.
    You know, I've seen both the x8 and x2 rule for size increases, though I can't by the gods remember where.


    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    I'd think an Obese Goliath would be the easiest way to get an overweight Medium character within RAW.
    A warforged with maxed height and weight, with adamantine body, with Willing Deformity (Obese) and that Stocky feat (perhaps if possible even a trait or flaw that increases weight), I'd say.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2010-10-09 at 10:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Stepping on someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    Mind telling me how you got an anthro small monstrous scorpion in the first place?
    Well I took the small monsterous scorpion monster, and applied the antro template from savage species. Since there is no listed weight for said monster, I decided to base it off a normal scorpion, since one of the most basic rules of math is that if every operation is at the same place of BEDMAS, it doesn't matter which order you do the calculations in.

    E.g 5*8/2*6 is equal to 5/2*6*8

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