[3.5] Scared is preferable to dead.

[Drakevarg]

So, latest in the line of DMing decisions that I will almost certaintly be criticized for. Explaination:

My 2nd level party is currently camped out in a city overwhelmed with undead. This is perfectly fine so long as I keep the enemy numbers in check. The concern comes from a little bit of flavor I added. Namely a Chain Devil that's hanging out in the ruins of this town. I put him there as the towns answer to Pyramid Head; a terrifying, overwhelming force that will cause the party to drop whatever they're doing and run for the hills if they so much as think he's within three blocks of them.

The problem is, I don't exactly have a high opinion of my party's survival instinct. (Part of the point of this campaign is to instill one.) So my question is, how can I display this thing's extreme capacity for PC-murder in a way that will actually make them understand that this is not something to be ****ed with? If I have to kill these characters, I'd rather have it be for a better reason than "they ran headfirst into a blender."

[Lord_Gareth]

Let them make a few futile attacks against it; play up the thing laughing off their pitiful attempts to hurt it. Have it stalk them slowly without a care for their tactics, smashing bits of the scenery as it goes along. Emphasize that they are helpless before it.

You can also instill a sense of dread by having them see it dispatch some of the enemies they might otherwise fear with ease. Maybe some starving Wight goes after it and gets torn limb from limb by its animate chains ability. Maybe they find a journal describing the decimation of another party by this chain devil (added bonus: actually write the journal on tattered, yellowed paper and hand it to them as a prop). Maybe the half-mad devil bursts through a wall and literally consumes a few zombies alive. Whatever you do, let them have the chance to AVOID a confrontation first before you let loose with the thing teaching them fear on the end of a spiked chain.

[mucat]

Wait till the PCs have just barely survived the toughest fight of their lives. Whatever creature or creatures they just fought, have five times as many of the same things come into play. Clearly an unstoppable force, and the PCs will have to know they should flee, hide, or avoid.

These unstoppable bad guys then say or do something that displeases the chain devil, who splatters them like you would swat a fly, then walks off on business of his own.

If they don't get the message, they're not trying to live.


EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Elfin]

I'd suggest introducing the devil as a shadowy, menacing figure who leads (from behind) hordes of lesser foes, though never actually entering the fray itself: even if the PCs don't know how to judge whether they can beat a single enemy, they're much more likely to realize that they're outmatched if they're facing an enormous force of ghouls and zombies.

Plus, if the devil is always accompanied by such a horde, the PCs will porbably get the message that this guy equals bad news.

[JonestheSpy]

Okay, this might cause some severe disapproval, but here's my advice: cheat. If the players run into this creature and aren't experienced enough to realize they're outclassed, figure out away to beat them down without a TPK, one that hopefully doesn't seem contrived or deus ex machina. Perhaps having the devil have an ability for stunning, so it's not utterly stupid tactics for it to incapacitate one character then go after another without killing the first.

If they can survive with almost no hit points and no spells left, and do so with the impression that only a few lucky die rolls saved them instead of DM mercy, they will probably start to be a lot more cautious. If they don't get the hint, they deserve to be massacred next time around.

[Shadowleaf]

Are they alone in the city?

Otherwise, have the strongest NPCs die horribly to this entity - in the open and in front of the party. Have them see the devil rip apart the NPCs, then turn its attention on the party.

Make sure the party is at full strength when they encounter it - if they are wounded, they might make the assumption that it's beatable if they're fully prepared for it.

[Drakevarg]

So have it Curb Stomp something considerably stronger than the party and hope they take the hint? Seems doable.

A bit of background on this particular Chain Devil, as a possible alternative I thought of:

Known as "The Chained Man," what it originally was is unknown. In the end it was defeated and bound, kept locked beneath the holy Temple and guarded by the Templar Knights (5th-7th Level Paladins). Unfortunately, when the undead horde stormed through the city and wiped out the Templar, there was nothing left binding the Chained Man, who broke free and began to terrorize what was left of the city.

I was thinking I could have them search the Temple, and in the basement have them find the shattered remnants of it's prison, with enough countermeasures that, if they weren't all broken through, would seem like overkill.

EDIT: Ninja'd three times...

I'd suggest introducing the devil as a shadowy, menacing figure who leads (from behind) hordes of lesser foes, though never actually entering the fray itself: even if the PCs don't know how to judge whether they can beat a single enemy, they're much more likely to realize that they're outmatched if they're facing an enormous force of ghouls and zombies.

Plus, if the devil is always accompanied by such a horde, the PCs will porbably get the message that this guy equals bad news.

Akshully, this is supposed to be the type of threat that ALL sides of the conflict fear. When he turns up, villains and heroes alike **** bricks and get out FAST.

[Kaww]

Make them meet ether an NPC that is more powerful than they are or an NPC party, that is tougher than they are. Have them face the threat and die horribly without rolling the dice. When they should avoid the threat use the same creature and increase it's size category, but no additional HD (+1CR).

This is as clear as it gets.

EDIT:

Are they alone in the city?

Otherwise, have the strongest NPCs die horribly to this entity - in the open and in front of the party. Have them see the devil rip apart the NPCs, then turn its attention on the party.

Make sure the party is at full strength when they encounter it - if they are wounded, they might make the assumption that it's beatable if they're fully prepared for it.

Darn, too slow.

[Lord_Gareth]

Are they alone in the city?

Otherwise, have the strongest NPCs die horribly to this entity - in the open and in front of the party. Have them see the devil rip apart the NPCs, then turn its attention on the party.

Make sure the party is at full strength when they encounter it - if they are wounded, they might make the assumption that it's beatable if they're fully prepared for it.

Worf effect is always bad in RPGs. Please don't do this - it makes any powerful NPC in your campaign seem like a chump.

[Drakevarg]

Are they alone in the city?

Otherwise, have the strongest NPCs die horribly to this entity - in the open and in front of the party. Have them see the devil rip apart the NPCs, then turn its attention on the party.

Make sure the party is at full strength when they encounter it - if they are wounded, they might make the assumption that it's beatable if they're fully prepared for it.

Unfortunately, I already killed off all the competent NPCs in town when the undead invaded. The very Paladins that kept this thing locked up in the first place were Chunky Salsa'd.

Since then, the toughest NPCs left in town are 3rd level at best.

[Kaww]

Worf effect is always bad in RPGs. Please don't do this - it makes any powerful NPC in your campaign seem like a chump.

It's a 2nd lvl party. There should more powerful NPCs that don't have to be too smart. City guards are likely to be tougher than they are.

@ OP:

Have the same (or greater) number of lvl 3 chars as an NPC party.

[Drakevarg]

It's a 2nd lvl party. There should more powerful NPCs that don't have to be too smart. City guards are likely to be tougher than they are.

The average city guard in my game is 3rd level, yes.

Unfortunately, they're all dead. Zombie cows happened.

[Shadowleaf]

Worf effect is always bad in RPGs. Please don't do this - it makes any powerful NPC in your campaign seem like a chump.

This is true. If executed poorly, this is the effect it will have.

It can be done properly, however. This is how I imagine it:

Holy Paladin William eats lesser devils for breakfast. He's helped the city with the undead since day one, and has (probably) more kills than anyone else.
The party is out on a mission with him, and they encounter undead. They fight for a while, and the Chain Devil appears.

Now is the fine line between awesome and terribad. This is the important part. Let's look at a few scenarios:

The Paladin chooses to make an epic last stand, telling the party to flee because the Devil is too strong. This will most likely remind the players of Gandalf Versus Balroeg, and.. This is not good storytelling, this is railroading.

The Paladin and the party take up arms against the Devil. The Devil rips the Paladin apart, but not before he places the party in a Sanctuary effect. The Devil tries to break it, gets bored, and leaves. This will leave the party scared of it, to say the least.

The Paladin and the party fight the Devil. The Paladin is brutally killed, and the Devil turns its attention to the party. Smart players would run, but.. Most probably wouldn't.

[Lord_Gareth]

Any general comments on my first recommendation? That's how I normally do things in my games when I want to establish badass monster-figures, but my players get subtle hints (most of the time).

[Drakevarg]

Any general comments on my first recommendation? That's how I normally do things in my games when I want to establish badass monster-figures, but my players get subtle hints (most of the time).

Just let them hit the thing and have it laugh as it No Sells everything? Honestly, I like that one.

[Worira]

Wait till the PCs have just barely survived the toughest fight of their lives. Whatever creature or creatures they just fought, have five times as many of the same things come into play. Clearly an unstoppable force, and the PCs will have to know they should flee, hide, or avoid.

These unstoppable bad guys then say or do something that displeases the chain devil, who splatters them like you would swat a fly, then walks off on business of his own.

If they don't get the message, they're not trying to live.


EDIT: Ninja'd.

Except that that would result in the chain devil getting brutally slaughtered.

[Drakevarg]

Except that that would result in the chain devil getting brutally slaughtered.

Not really. I'm pretty sure it could take out pretty much anything currently living in this town. Especially considering it has DR 5/Silver or Good and Regeneration 2. Smack it all you like, unless you have the right tool it's gonna do **** all.

[Kaww]

Let them make a few futile attacks against it; play up the thing laughing off their pitiful attempts to hurt it. Have it stalk them slowly without a care for their tactics, smashing bits of the scenery as it goes along. Emphasize that they are helpless before it.

You can also instill a sense of dread by having them see it dispatch some of the enemies they might otherwise fear with ease. Maybe some starving Wight goes after it and gets torn limb from limb by its animate chains ability. Maybe they find a journal describing the decimation of another party by this chain devil (added bonus: actually write the journal on tattered, yellowed paper and hand it to them as a prop). Maybe the half-mad devil bursts through a wall and literally consumes a few zombies alive. Whatever you do, let them have the chance to AVOID a confrontation first before you let loose with the thing teaching them fear on the end of a spiked chain.

From what I understood. The BBEG DEVIL is controlling/herding the undead so I don't think they would attack him.

What kind of a person do you think would write a journal in this kind of situation? You see a bunch of people slaughtered by a monstrosity, :This makes a great story!

Why should he laugh at them when he slaughtered much weaker NPCs than they are. If the answer is: they are PCs I murder a kitten.

EDIT: I stand corrected, but you didn't say if I'm right: Does he have anything to do with the control of the said undead.

[Drakevarg]

From what I understood. The BBEG is controlling/herding the undead so I don't think they would attack him.

Big Bad is a different (and much tougher) individual.

What kind of a person do you think would write a journal in this kind of situation? You see a bunch of people slaughtered by a monstrosity, :This makes a great story!

Why should he laugh at them when he slaughtered much weaker NPCs than they are. If the answer is: they are PCs I murder a kitten.

Mayhaps the Chained Man likes to play with his food before he eats it?

[Lord_Gareth]

Why should he laugh at them when he slaughtered much weaker NPCs than they are. If the answer is: they are PCs I murder a kitten.

"The city's [--------------] food is running low. We've been contemplating eating some of the undead, but won't stoop so low just yet. Not yet. Haldrik [-----------------]."

"[-----] gods, it was terrible. Haldrik found survivors and called out to them when some kind of demon burst from the catacomb tunnels [---------] could hear their shrieking from eight blocks away. Haldrik said the chain demon spent hours killing them [----------]"

Why is the journal torn into shreds? What happened to the author? I smell plot hook :p

[Kaww]

Mayhaps the Chained Man likes to play with his food before he eats it?

I'd guess he got bored after a while, if he was into it...

[Drakevarg]

EDIT: I stand corrected, but you didn't say if I'm right: Does he have anything to do with the control of the said undead.

No. The Chained Man is more of a Giant Space Flea From Nowhere. He's got nothing to do with the main plot, and his sole purpose is to make the PCs piss themselves.

[Kaww]

"The city's [--------------] food is running low. We've been contemplating eating some of the undead, but won't stoop so low just yet. Not yet. Haldrik [-----------------]."

"[-----] gods, it was terrible. Haldrik found survivors and called out to them when some kind of demon burst from the catacomb tunnels [---------] could hear their shrieking from eight blocks away. Haldrik said the chain demon spent hours killing them [----------]"

Why is the journal torn into shreds? What happened to the author? I smell plot hook :p

I apologize if this is a double post.

We have no food, we flee undead every day, they ate all the capable people. On the plus side I fond this amazing inkwell (insert high price), undamaged pen (insert price) and an empty book so PCs would know what is happening. Is this the header of the journal?

[Lord_Gareth]

@Psycho - Look up :p

[Drakevarg]

"The city's [--------------] food is running low. We've been contemplating eating some of the undead, but won't stoop so low just yet. Not yet. Haldrik [-----------------]."

"[-----] gods, it was terrible. Haldrik found survivors and called out to them when some kind of demon burst from the catacomb tunnels [---------] could hear their shrieking from eight blocks away. Haldrik said the chain demon spent hours killing them [----------]"

Why is the journal torn into shreds? What happened to the author? I smell plot hook :p

I think I might use this. The PCs are here in the first place because they thought the undead in town might make good training. (In other words, they saw it as a giant chunk of XP in character.) Why should they be the first to come to that conclusion?

@Psycho - Look up :p

I saw it. Linking to TVTropes just distracted me a bit.

[Elfin]

Akshully, this is supposed to be the type of threat that ALL sides of the conflict fear. When he turns up, villains and heroes alike **** bricks and get out FAST.

Ah, then perhaps you could initially present a seemingly major villain on the undead side, have it flee, and, when it comes time for a rematch, have the chain devil burst in, slaughtering the "big bad" without a thought?
If nothing else, it's a way of killing an NPC to show the devil's power while avoiding Gandalf/Balrog syndrome.

[Lord_Gareth]

I apologize if this is a double post.

We have no food, we flee undead every day, they ate all the capable people. On the plus side I fond this amazing inkwell (insert high price), undamaged pen (insert price) and an empty book so PCs would know what is happening. Is this the header of the journal?

The PCs find the journal in the remnants of an inn; broken barricades and hurriedly abandoned belongings abound.

PCs find the pages floating on the wind. Are the author and his companions still alive? Maybe. If they are, they could probably use some back-up.

PCs find the pages clutched in the fist of a skeletal corpse, the rest of the book too splattered with blood to read. Peel the skeleton's fist back away from the book and you find a pendant with a family crest. Maybe this poor soldier had a family. They probably want to know what happened to him.

And honestly, man, you can own a journal BEFORE all hell breaks loose :p

[Elfin]

"The city's [--------------] food is running low. We've been contemplating eating some of the undead, but won't stoop so low just yet. Not yet. Haldrik [-----------------]."

"[-----] gods, it was terrible. Haldrik found survivors and called out to them when some kind of demon burst from the catacomb tunnels [---------] could hear their shrieking from eight blocks away. Haldrik said the chain demon spent hours killing them [----------]"

Why is the journal torn into shreds? What happened to the author? I smell plot hook :p

Now that is a good idea. I like it a lot.

[Drakevarg]

Ah, then perhaps you could initially present a seemingly major villain on the undead side, have it flee, and, when it comes time for a rematch, have the chain devil burst in, slaughtering the "big bad" without a thought?
If nothing else, it's a way of killing an NPC to show the devil's power while avoiding Gandalf/Balrog syndrome.

Hm... I suppose. Though I don't think the PCs will ever get the opportunity to take this thing down, and killing the local undead leader would only rob the PCs of a boss fight.

On the other hand, the PCs are so morally ambiguous that one of them is actually friends with said undead boss... which is the only thing keeping her from being ghoul food. So it might give her incentive to move on.

[Elfin]

You're right; on second thought, the kill-stealing idea would probably just frustrate players.
Honestly, at this point I'd just use Lord Gareth's suggestion.