Clues

[The Pressman]

Are there any good guidelines for coming up with these? I know about the three clue rule, but are there general rules about how many of a specific kind you should give?

[Kaww]

I generally go with: as much as needed, without railroading.

If the players notice them, figure them out and decide to ignore them I just let it run it's course. Usually something bad happens after this, since clues were about something the PCs would've stopped.

My .02

[The Pressman]

I know that, but what I'm really trying to get at is if there are any guidelines on how many, say, evidence clues there are. And what's a good way to deal with evidence? And clues, for that matter.

[Kaww]

I'm sorry, but from what I understand the best answer (if you ask me), but not the one you are looking for is 'What ever you say chief'. These should be your decisions and they should wary from campaign to campaign. Not all legal systems are the same and not all evidence have equal weight. If you are not going to be more specific 'What ever you say chief' will probably remain the best answer.

[The Pressman]

I meant deal with it as in how to place it, how obvious, etc. Things like that.

[Kaww]

AAArrrgh me is dumb!!!

Sorry about that. Translates differently...

Again this depends on the kind of clues you want to give. They shouldn't be too difficult to find. Let us say 5-15 Search DC, but your players have to realize they are clues. For this end you must not tell them that they only find useful stuff. They must find junk as well. Clues should be things that are out of place, odd behavior etc.

Let us say a woman was murdered, there is a golden ring in the bin, a white mark on her hand that marks a place for a wedding ring and neighbors say she was having an affair. Party has to find all of these, find the husband and the other guy, question them and make an educated guess.

I came up with this just now so it might suck but you get the picture. I don't know if there are books related to this, and I don't do stuff by the book, since I have 2 players who read them more than I do and I don't want to be owned...

[DwarfFighter]

I meant deal with it as in how to place it, how obvious, etc. Things like that.

It really depends on what sort of information you want to convey to the PCs, and the situation. Perhaps you could elaborate on your plot?

For example, if you want the players to learn that King is involved with some sort of evil cult, then you can use observable clues that are part of the story progress:

• The cultists that attacked the PCs turn out not to be masquerading as the King's guard, but are actually guardsmen.
• The cults secret meetings are held on low-key property known to be owned by the King.
• Surviving cultists the PCS have handed over to to the authorities inexplicably show up to fight them not long after.

These are clues the PCs can notice and add up to point the finger towards the King, or at least one of the King's trusted subordinates. The down-side is that the PCs can very well fail to pick up on these details. The players only know what you tell them.

Alternatively you can have the PCs come across a tangible clue, something you can clearly state points their investigation in a specific. For example a letter that more or less clearly states the connection you have been trying to bring across.

Finally you can have the PCs finally get a break and give them an interactive clue, for example a witness that both possesses the information the PCs need to know and that also knows the PCs needs to know this!

However, it's all really dependent on the situation and plot.

-DF

[FelixG]

For me it depends on the information. How vital is it?

If its a minor bit of information for a side quest, eh not too obvious, its there for the players to find.

If its a major hinging point (enemy has to be killed using electricity!) i leave some interesting hints, maybe charcol drawings and the like of different things on the wall to simulate the BBEGs fear of rain/lighting storms :D

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Three clues per discovery.

TL;DR?
The point is that unless your players find and understand the clues, you adventure is going nowhere. Make them do the work, but make sure they can figure it out.
As for placing clues, and the form of clues - that depends on the party, and the adventure. If the party can speak with dead, then the corpse is a clue. If the party are searching a bad guy's study, then his encrypted diary is a clue.

But there should always be at least three clues for every step you need the party to take.

[valadil]

My answer is usually enough. If the players miss the first clue I'll come up with a second. Repeat until they figure things out. Usually if they miss a clue I've dropped it's because they're really interested in something happening somewhere else. I'll let them explore somewhere else, and they let the murderer get away for another session.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

I've found the three-three-three rule before is a good rule of thumb. Have three pieces of evidence/conclusions the players should draw, which each have three clues pointing to them, each of which can be found three different ways. It's a useful starting point, at any rate.

[The Pressman]

@all: This sounds pretty good. I'll definitely check out that article about the 3-clue rule.