[3.5] Need to decide on new class for an NPC.

[Drakevarg]

In my campaigns, I try to run on a rough rule of thumb that for every two levels the PCs gain, named NPCs (at least ones in a line of work where it'd make sense) gain one level. In most cases, this is fine. The Big Bad Lich Cleric just adds another level of cleric and we're good to go.

Then we get ones where that doesn't work so well, like the one I'm currently contemplating. The Big Bad's current Dragon, Ikari. Originally a 5th Level Paladin, he was killed by the Big Bad, raised as a Ghoul (Gravetouched, actually, but that's the only type of Ghoul I use in this setting) and bound to the Big Bad's service. So now he's a Fallen Paladin, and when he levels up he won't be able to take another level in that class.

Now, in your standard, RAW campaign this wouldn't be even worth discussing. Toss him into Blackguard and call it a day. However, I altered Blackguard before this ever came up into a base class that was essentially just an evil version of the Paladin. Furthermore, Paladins are an elf-only class, and thus their opposite is an orc-only class. So, Blackguard isn't on the table here.

With the following books as available options (don't bother suggesting SRD; I don't use it), what would be a reasonable class for him to take and, if you care to contemplate it, a good progression for him to aim towards?

Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Complete Warrior
Complete Arcane
Manual of the Planes (3.0 but workable.)

[Frosty]

Can he retrain? I mean, without Blackguard he has 5 Fighter-without-bonus_feats levels.

[Drakevarg]

Can he retrain? I mean, without Blackguard he has 5 Fighter-without-bonus_feats levels.

No, he can't. I realize that he'll always be considerably underpowered for his level thanks to this, but eh. He does have an army at his beck and call and his boss tells WBL to shut up and go cry in a corner somewhere.

[Khatoblepas]

His master uses his foul magicks to warp and corrupt the paladin beyond even falling.

He takes the "Dark Knight" class. It is identical to the SRD Blackguard, but accessed only by the foul magicks of the Lich. He replaces his useless Fallen Paladin levels with "Dark Knight" levels, and once he's done with that, just keep levelling him up giving him extra spell levels, sneak attack, and other spells. This keeps him enticed into the dark path his master gives him, because turning back into a paladin will weaken him.

You may say "But I altered the Blackguard", but you're the DM. You don't have to follow the same rules as the player if you're creating a badass opponent for them. They can't access his prestige class because it's only there as a representation of the Lich's corruption. Hopefully your players aren't going to try and find that prestige class for themselves (which would, probably, require them to be undead and bound to the service of a Lich, and maybe a few sacrifices of innocent souls.) so it's all fine. He's a unique case.

This is only because I don't think there are any really good prestige classes for melee characters in those books. If Tome of Battle was available, Crusader would be the obvious choice, but for now... Rule 0, baby.

[Frosty]

We need to know more about this fallen paladin. What is his intended role? What is his personality, if any?

[Drakevarg]

We need to know more about this fallen paladin. What is his intended role? What is his personality, if any?

Ikari used to be a fairly average Paladin. Truth, Justice and the Elven Way and all that. Then, during a mission to go investigate a small settlement that turned into a ghost town seemingly overnight, he gets himself impaled on a pair of zombie cows. The Big Bad, deciding the irony would be too good to pass up, decides to rez the Pally into his undead servent.

Now that he's been Ghoul-ified, Ikari's personality has changed a bit. Now with a deep craving for living flesh, his standards have... loosened, somewhat. He's still big on honorable conduct and whatnot, but less big on mercy and compassion and other things that make up the "G" in "LG." He absolutely despises his new master, but with the magical compulsion he's a hollow shell of his former self, limited to impotently cursing his master's name under his breath.

As for his function, it's largely that of commanding small forces of powerful undead, usually for the purposes of crushing a city's first lines of defense. When he's not doing that, he acts as the Big Bad's bodyguard, taking care of threats the lich simply can't be bothered with.

@Khato-whateveryournameis:

It would make sense to make a knightly class for Death, yes. Especially since the God of Death in this campaign is Lawful Neutral. I'll put it into consideration if this thread doesn't yield more interesting alternatives.

[Marnath]

You could have him use the Emancipated Spawn PrC from libris mortis, at the capstone he would I think have the option of going back to being a paladin, even as a ghoul. However, I imagine that would defeat the point of having him be the BBEG's Dragon, so I would advise using the Paladin of Tyranny alternate paladin class. I know you don't like the SRD, but you have no real reason not to use it since all it is is a reposting of the DMG, PHB, Epic rules and Unearthed Arcana. You already own most of the rules on the SRD in your books you have in meatspace.

If it helps, the paladin of tyranny gets all the opposites of a paladin: Aura of evil, smite good, detect good, cause wounds(negative energy version of lay on hands) and cause disease. they rebuke undead and have a fear aura.
Their code has to be LE and they can never do a good act.

[Frosty]

Your lack of additional books saddens me. He'd do alright as a Marshall (even if the class is weak). He'd do better as a Knight from the PHB2.

[Drakevarg]

You could have him use the Emancipated Spawn PrC from libris mortis, at the capstone he would I think have the option of going back to being a paladin, even as a ghoul.

Emancipated Spawn? I've read Libris Mortis front to back, and I'm pretty sure there's nothing of the sort in there. I wish it did, though. It sounds interesting.

However, I imagine that would defeat the point of having him be the BBEG's Dragon, so I would advise using the Paladin of Tyranny alternate paladin class.

Eh. I've always thought the "Paladin of X" classes to be silly anyway.

Your lack of additional books saddens me. He'd do alright as a Marshall (even if the class is weak). He'd do better as a Knight from the PHB2.

It saddens me, too. It's nigh impossible to find a 3.5 book in a bookstore these days.

[Marnath]

Emancipated Spawn? I've read Libris Mortis front to back, and I'm pretty sure there's nothing of the sort in there.

Just checked, and I feel stupid. It's in Savage Species, not Libris Mortis. Oops?

Eh. I've always thought the "Paladin of X" classes to be silly anyway.

Be that as it may, you did ask, and it's all I could think of.
It's here if you decide to change your stance on usage of SRD.

It saddens me, too. It's nigh impossible to find a 3.5 book in a bookstore these days.

E-bay is your friend. You can probably find someone who has a copy they'd sell.

[BeholderSlayer]

Eh. I've always thought the "Paladin of X" classes to be silly anyway.

I've always thought the "Paladin's must be Lawful Good" nonsense was silly.

It saddens me, too. It's nigh impossible to find a 3.5 book in a bookstore these days.

E-bay and Amazon.com.

[Drakevarg]

Problem being that I have no consistant source of income, no credit cards (and don't intend to ever get any) and no PayPal account. Otherwise yes, I'd be ordering new books on a weekly basis.

I've always thought the "Paladin's must be Lawful Good" nonsense was silly.

*Shrug* They're the sword-arm of a holy god. Can't exactly let the smelly psychotic hobo walk around with that kind of authority.

Then again, most people seem to think that Paladins need to be much more fall-prone than Clerics. I don't really see why. They're essentially serving the same function, only one involves alot more smiting faces.

[Greenish]

How about some Cavalier, to strike fear into the hearts of your PCs?

It technically merely advances Paladin's mount, but you could allow him to get an appropriate mount for his paladin + cavalier levels despite no longer being a paladin.

Even without a special mount, a proper undead monstrosity should serve equally well.

[Marnath]

Problem being that I have no consistant source of income, no credit cards (and don't intend to ever get any) and no PayPal account. Otherwise yes, I'd be ordering new books on a weekly basis.

I'm in the same boat.
I'd just tell you what marshall and knight do but for some reason it's still illegal to do that even though 3.5e is now out of print.

Which doesn't give us many options to suggest, sorry. Most of the cool options your NPC could use are in books you don't have. So blackguard or Tyranny paladin it is, unless you feel like homebrewing something yourself?

[Drakevarg]

How about some Cavalier, to strike fear into the hearts of your PCs?

It technically merely advances Paladin's mount, but you could allow him to get an appropriate mount for his paladin + cavalier levels despite no longer being a paladin.

Even without a special mount, a proper undead monstrosity should serve equally well.

Zombie cow mount!

Unfortunately, that'll have to wait until 9th level. I'll aim for it, though.

Which doesn't give us many options to suggest, sorry. Most of the cool options your NPC could use are in books you don't have. So blackguard or Tyranny paladin it is, unless you feel like homebrewing something yourself?

At this point I'm thinking either straight Fighter or a homebrewed "Death Knight." (I.e., Death-Flavored Lawful Neutral Paladin.)

[Marnath]

Zombie cow mount!

Unfortunately, that'll have to wait until 9th level. I'll aim for it, though.

Awesome, Glad I was wrong about not being able to help you. That's the Playground for ya.

*edit: Death flavored LN paladin? Sounds like it could be promising. Maybe with an undead special mount?

[jiriku]

First two levels: advance him from ghoul to ghast. The improved Strength, Dex, and Cha, plus the stench aura and the extra 13 hp will make him much more relevant in combat. Homebrew some modifications to the gravetouched ghoul template if you don't feel comfortable bastardizing the template by adding monster hit dice.

3rd and 4th level: monk and monk (and the Carmendine Monk feat, which subs Cha for Wis on monk abilities)! Flurry of blows + paralysis + stunning blow + stench aura + disease = forcing the PCs to make 5+ saving throws per round, possibly at a penalty.

5th+: reflavored blackguard PrC, as the aura of despair will combine well with the stench aura for even more effective debuffing.

[Greenish]

I'd just tell you what marshall and knight do but for some reason it's still illegal to do that even though 3.5e is now out of print.

Not that it helps with Psycho's policy, but here we have Knight and Marshal.

[Edit]:

Zombie cow mount!

Damn the BBEG and his taste for irony!

[Drakevarg]

First two levels: advance him from ghoul to ghast. The improved Strength, Dex, and Cha, plus the stench aura and the extra 13 hp will make him much more relevant in combat.

He's not the Ghoul Monster Class. He's a Gravetouched Choul.

3rd and 4th level: monk and monk (and the Carmendine Monk feat, which subs Cha for Wis on monk abilities)! Flurry of blows + paralysis + stunning blow + stench aura + disease = forcing the PCs to make 5+ saving throws per round, possibly at a penalty.

Monks are on the banned class list, because Wire-Fu is silly.

*edit: Death flavored LN paladin? Sounds like it could be promising. Maybe with an undead special mount?

That was the plan. I'll post it in the Homebrew thread when I'm done with it.

[BeholderSlayer]

At this point I'm thinking either straight Fighter or a homebrewed "Death Knight." (I.e., Death-Flavored Lawful Neutral Paladin.)

I would go with something along those lines too.

One thing I've never liked about paladins being Lawful Good only is that it, for some reason, assumes that only Good aligned deities have "sword arms." It just doesn't sit with me well. For that reason, I like Paladin of X from UA.

[Marnath]

First two levels: advance him from ghoul to ghast. The improved Strength, Dex, and Cha, plus the stench aura and the extra 13 hp will make him much more relevant in combat.

3rd and 4th level: monk and monk (and the Carmendine Monk feat, which subs Cha for Wis on monk abilities)! Flurry of blows + paralysis + stunning blow + stench aura + disease = forcing the PCs to make 5+ saving throws per round, possibly at a penalty.

5th+: reflavored blackguard PrC, as the aura of despair will combine well with the stench aura for even more effective debuffing.

He probably wants at least a couple PC's to live through the opening few rounds with this guy.
What book is carmedine monk from?

[Greenish]

What book is carmedine monk from?

Champions of Valour.

[Drakevarg]

One thing I've never liked about paladins being Lawful Good only is that it, for some reason, assumes that only Good aligned deities have "sword arms." It just doesn't sit with me well. For that reason, I like Paladin of X from UA.

I suppose by that line of thought, Paladin of X makes sense. Though perhaps a less lazy sounding name. Hell, my campaign's Blackguards are very nearly just Paladins of Tyranny. Though with less "being a cackling evil overlord is a job requirement" and still having Lay on Hands/Remove Disease.

[Marnath]

I suppose by that line of thought, Paladin of X makes sense. Though perhaps a less lazy sounding name. Hell, my campaign's Blackguards are very nearly just Paladins of Tyranny. Though with less "being a cackling evil overlord is a job requirement" and still having Lay on Hands/Remove Disease.

That's actually a common thing, I think I've seen several people in these parts suggest getting rid of blackguard as a PrC and calling paladin of tyranny blackguard as a fix. It fits the flavor better, since blackguard's class abilities are kind of random. O.o

[Il_Vec]

Was I the only one who was intantly struck by "Then take Hexblade levels!"
I mean, as a former paladin he must have a decent charisma and strenght.

[Drakevarg]

Was I the only one who was intantly struck by "Then take Hexblade levels!"
I mean, as a former paladin he must have a decent charisma and strenght.

True. But Hexblade are arcane casters, and in this setting saying that divine and arcane are on bad terms with one another would be an understatement.

The only reason I didn't mention as much in the OP is because if I listed every campaign-specific limitation we'd be here all week.

[Quietus]

I suppose by that line of thought, Paladin of X makes sense. Though perhaps a less lazy sounding name. Hell, my campaign's Blackguards are very nearly just Paladins of Tyranny. Though with less "being a cackling evil overlord is a job requirement" and still having Lay on Hands/Remove Disease.

You don't need to change the name at all. He's still a Paladin; He's just no longer a Paladin of <whatever god he worshipped>, he's now a Paladin of <Crazy evil lich>. He still calls himself a Paladin, though.

This is why I require Paladins to have a deity they follow, and to be the same alignment of that deity. Code of conduct = upholding that deity's views in the world. Evil Paladins just swap any references of good/evil in the regular class.. neutral ones, talk to me to work that out.

[Drakevarg]

You don't need to change the name at all. He's still a Paladin; He's just no longer a Paladin of <whatever god he worshipped>, he's now a Paladin of <Crazy evil lich>. He still calls himself a Paladin, though.

'cept Paladin powers are not pulled out of the character's ass. They come from the god they worship. And his lich boss isn't quite powerful enough to start granting people divine power.

[Khatoblepas]

'cept Paladin powers are not pulled out of the character's ass. They come from the god they worship. And his lich boss isn't quite powerful enough to start granting people divine power.

Though, the powers a paladin actually gets aren't as powerful as a clerics (who also get their power from a god). I bet with the right rituals and incantations, and with some stolen artifacts, the cleric could grant a person the powers of a paladin. A few up to 4th level spells, a horse, and a few smites a day? That's believable for a cleric to be able to grant, especially a higher level one. They have Imbue with Spell Ability, and whose to say the god that grants the cleric power wouldn't grant the paladin that ability? And if the cleric's power is based entirely off of faith, the paladin can have that too (though it could be the cleric's hubris and narcissism doing it instead of the paladin himself.)

[Frosty]

If you need free material, why not go with Pathfinder's Cavalier? It's on their SRD site, and it's pretty cool.