[3.5] Add AMF to druid spell list?

[Frosty]

Is there any way for a druid to add Antimagic Field to his spell list? Looking to build an opponent for my party to fight. Cast the AMF on the Dire Bear or T-rex companion , and have the AC go grapple the DMM Persist-everything cleric.

[Jarian]

The Extra Spell feat, from Complete Arcane, can arguably do it. Nothing RAW prevents you from using it, but some people get a dirty feeling about learning off-list spells.

[Kaww]

How about dispel magic greater? It should strip him of everything he's got. If you are making the druid specifically for him just pump up/fudge the check (if the player is cheesy, if not let the Gods of dice decide).

[Frosty]

He's got a Ring of Counterspelling, Greater, so he can ignore one Gr Dispel Magic 1/day, and attempt to Counterspell another 1/day. Another party member (the archmage) has Reactive Counterspell.

So yeah, unless there are multiple caster spamming Gr Dispel Magic I don't see it working.

[Khatoblepas]

Contemplative 1 can give you Antimagic Field as a domain spell. Druid 11/C 1 is the earliest.

If it needs it earlier than that, just give the bear antimagic shackles/ an antimagic torc and activate it just before battle. If this is the only fight he'll be in, it should be trivial to get a 1/day antimagic field.

[Frosty]

Thanks! What are entrance requirements for Contemplative?

[Khatoblepas]

Thanks! What are entrance requirements for Contemplative?

I think it's "Knowledge (Religion) 13 ranks, can cast divine spells" off the top of my head. Nothing too strenuous, but cannot be entered before 10th level.

[Ruinix]

I think it's "Knowledge (Religion) 13 ranks, can cast divine spells" off the top of my head. Nothing too strenuous, but cannot be entered before 10th level.

skill focus can't lower the entrance to lev 7 ?

[Emmerask]

The Extra Spell feat, from Complete Arcane, can arguably do it. Nothing RAW prevents you from using it, but some people get a dirty feeling about learning off-list spells.

By the RAW, you cannot learn spells that are not on your class spell list. Extra Spell does not explicitly exempt itself from the general rule, so the general rule still applies

[Khatoblepas]

skill focus can't lower the entrance to lev 7 ?

The prerequisite for PrCs is in ranks, not bonus. Skill Focus gives you a +3 bonus to a skill roll, not 3 free ranks in it. Remember:
Rank+Mod+Bonus is the skill roll. PrCs only check the rank number.

[Jarian]

By the RAW, you cannot learn spells that are not on your class spell list. Extra Spell does not explicitly exempt itself from the general rule, so the general rule still applies

I see your objection and raise you the text of the feat:

For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

[Emmerask]

This, while it could mean that he can learn from other class lists, could also just mean that a specialist wizard can learn from all the wizard schools including the banned schools. Or it could just mean that a wizard can learn a spell he hasn´t found a scroll for (and is unwilling to sacrifice higher level learning slots for) to to put it into his spellbook.

In short it is in my opinion too vague to overrule the general rule.

[ericgrau]

I'd put it a level higher than cleric, like dispel magic. As things that work on magic aren't really druidic in flavor.

That said wild shape is supernatural so it's not like druids have much use for AMF anyway. All it adds is some minor versatility to a pure casting druid. That's probably why it didn't make the list at all. Higher level makes it a pretty lousy spell, lower level breaks fluff.

[AmberVael]

I see your objection and raise you the text of the feat:

The errata clarified it so that you can't choose spells off your class list, from what I recall.

And yeah, Contemplative is how I'd recommend doing it too. Very easy class to get into, though you have to be high level to do it. 1st level divine spells, 13 ranks of knowledge (religion), and contact with some kind of divine critter or something, for fluff.

Only difficulty will be getting Knowledge (Religion) onto your class list, but there are a number of ways to do that efficiently.

[Jarian]

The errata clarified it so that you can't choose spells off your class list, from what I recall.

The Extra Spell feat is not even mentioned in the CArc errata. Were you thinking of something else?

[Keld Denar]

The Extra Spell feat is not even mentioned in the CArc errata. Were you thinking of something else?

It was ruled that way in the FAQ. For whatever that's worth...

Also, the best way to get Know: Religion on your class list is Knowledge Devotion. Since you have Knowledge Nature on your class list, its easy to meet the prereqs for KD. KD makes any one knowledge skill of your choice a class skill for life. It also gives you a nifty bonus vs a creature if you can make a Knowledge skill check based on its type.

The second best way would be the Education feat in the FRCS and ECS. It gives you ALL knowledges as class skills. It doesn't give you the neato bonus, but would allow you to be more flexible in which knowledges you drop skill ranks in if you wanna be a know-it-all.

[AmberVael]

I know I'm thinking of Extra Spell, so that just leaves the source as unclarified. Maybe it was the FAQ or something. I'm very sure they clarified it somewhere...


Found it: Google Cached.

From Sage, apparently.

[Wabbajack]

There is a way to get a skill higher than your normal maximum, but only by 1 and it takes two feats to do so.

Favored and Primary Contact from Cityscape. You need to be a member of a church or other organization to take the Favored, which in turn is a perquisite for Primary Contact.
Favored gives a small competence bonus to a skill associated with the organization and you can gain special favors from them.
Primary Contact gives you one rank (mentioned to be able to put it above the maximum rank) to an associated skill and makes you able to request favors more often.

[Urpriest]

Technically there are other ways to break max ranks as well, but these of course involve extreme cheese.

[Frosty]

No it's fine. I don't need early entrance. The Druid will likely be level 16 or so.

[Tshern]

Arcane Disciple+Magical training.

[Psyren]

Technically there are other ways to break max ranks as well, but these of course involve extreme cheese.

Indeed - the one I hear most frequently is having a bard Inspire Greatness nearby while you level up. (Bonus HD = higher cap.)

[LibraryOgre]

Indeed - the one I hear most frequently is having a bard Inspire Greatness nearby while you level up. (Bonus HD = higher cap.)

...that's just silly. I mean, really? Someone let them get away with this? And it somehow doesn't go away when they lose them?

I am boggled.

[Psyren]

...that's just silly. I mean, really? Someone let them get away with this? And it somehow doesn't go away when they lose them?

I am boggled.

The HD do, but nothing says the skill ranks decrease as well. I think it's silly too, but RAW frequently is.

[FMArthur]

Inspire Greatness gives Hit Dice, but gives you no skill points whatsoever. If, while under its effect, you gain skill points in some way or can rearrange your existing skill ranks (Psychic Reformation is the easy way), your maximum skill ranks are your total hit dice + 3. So you get Inspire Greatness'd, cast Psychic Reformation, and reallocate some skill ranks to their higher maximum. They don't revert or anything after you're done.

[LibraryOgre]

Inspire Greatness gives Hit Dice, but gives you no skill points whatsoever. If, while under its effect, you gain skill points in some way or can rearrange your existing skill ranks (Psychic Reformation is the easy way), your maximum skill ranks are your total hit dice + 3. So you get Inspire Greatness'd, cast Psychic Reformation, and reallocate some skill ranks to their higher maximum. They don't revert or anything after you're done.

Except that max skill ranks are calculated based on your hit dice. If your hit dice go down permanently for some reason, then so do your max skill ranks. It happens with level drain or raising all the time.

[FMArthur]

Except that max skill ranks are calculated based on your hit dice. If your hit dice go down permanently for some reason, then so do your max skill ranks. It happens with level drain or raising all the time.

Okay, then it doesn't work except when you level-up into your Prestige Class before the duration expires. Either way I think it's safe to say that this has never been and never will be done in a game.

[Wabbajack]

Your skill ranks don't go down, you just can't put points into them until they aren't max any more.

[Psyren]

Also of note: when you lose the HD and cease to qualify for your PrC, all that causes you to lose are special abilities. However, you get to keep BAB, spellcasting increases, saves etc.

This is of course assuming the worst-case scenario (that lowering the cap reduces your skill ranks) which is by no means the only interpretation. (With apologies to Mark.)

[Kobold-Bard]

1. Have lots of skill points, either from a couple of levels in Rogue etc. or high intelligence. You need at least enough when you perform step 2 to add up to the total you need for pre reqs.
2. Polymorph into a Dusk Giant.
3. Chow down on (previously acquired) (possibly Dire) Chickens to gain HD = skill pre reqs-3.
4. Psychic Reformation skill points into appropriate place.

Spell wears off but your skill points stay where they are, meaning you have a higher than normal amount of ranks in assorted skills.

Doesn't help the OP, but is a way to beat skill pre reqs.