[3.5] Shortspear Optimization

[Achernar]

Hi there, Playgrounders!

I am trying to construct a character for a mercenary-themed campaign. I am hoping to be useful in a few aspects to the party, specifically as a mixed melee/ranged spearman who can deal decent damage while still being a functional scout for the party. I have a concept for a fighter/rogue/master thrower, but I was wondering:

Are there any better ways to fill a combat role like this? Specifically, with a better class? I'd like Hide/M.S., Tumble and UMD to be available options.

ToB may be allowed, most other books will be allowed, but I don't want to mess with psionics.

So, GitP, what can you do with a shortspear warrior? Javelins and darts also fit the theme.

Thanks for your time and help!

[Marnath]

Well, one thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Returning enchantment for your shortspear, so that you can get it back without closing to melee range.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So You Want To Be A Javizon (but didn't know how to translate Diablo 2 into a D&D 3.5 character)

There's several ways to go about doing this, but in brief:

1) Duskblade. This is for using your channeling through your spear, letting you apply nasty effects when you launch a spear/dart

2) THIS. IS. SPAR... aw shaddup already. Shortspear + Shield. TWF with Improved Shield Bash to be able to duo-wield spear and shield. Get Bashing enchantment on said shield. Best chassis here is going to be a Scout Ranger Swift Hunter build that has a dip in Cloistered Cleric for Travel Devotion.

3) Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade. This is for just being plain nasty with your spear. With Bloodstorm Blade, you can treat your thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks, so you can Power Attack with thrown attacks, and initiate maneuvers. How about tacking on 2d6 Con damage when you chunk that spear? Yea, he can do that. How about ignoring DR and adding a handful of dice on top? Yea, he can do that too.

Rogue is really sub-par here. Option 2 has all your hide/move silently/spot/search/listen needs, if that's the route you want to go.

[true_shinken]

Get gloves of taarnham (or however that's spelled) the vigilant.
Throwing + returning for all your weapons for only 10k.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think Stormlord is also designed for spear work, but it requires cleric or druid levels...

[Darrin]

I think Stormlord is also designed for spear work, but it requires cleric or druid levels...

Or Ranger. Mystic Ranger works even better, although the medium BAB is a bit galling for a melee scrapper.

Kobolds actually make some of the best spear-wielders, if the DM allows a quirky reading of their "Slight Build" racial feature (from the Web Extract material). When wielding a tiny-sized longspear, this allows them to treat it as a one-handed reach weapon without a size penalty. This leaves the other hand free to carry a spiked shield.

[JKTrickster]

Well if you're into throwing, I think Bloodstorm Blade 1 will provide returning for free while Warblades are awesome enough damage wise that shield and spear wouldn't make you any less cool damage wise.

[Coidzor]

Or Ranger. Mystic Ranger works even better, although the medium BAB is a bit galling for a melee scrapper.

Mystic Ranger doesn't lose out on BAB from all that I've seen about it.

Loses martial melee weapon proficiencies, certainly, so you'd need to get martial proficiencies from another source or make due with simple weapons only. Thankfully spears are simple weapons, so, no real loss there either, come to think of it.

[Iku Rex]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54160

Brutal Throw (CAdv) = Good.

Hide, MS and UMD complicates things. (You can get tumble from Skilled City-Dweller, if the DM allows it.) Maybe a variant rogue, for the feats?

Get Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC 194, 7000 gp) ASAP.

[Forged Fury]

Also make sure to pick up the Changeling property for your shortspear. Cheap flat fee to allow you to change between shortspear, spear, and longspear as a swift action when necessary.

[Achernar]

Hey, thanks! I like these ideas. I will look into them more and post a build soon.

[Cieyrin]

Mystic Ranger doesn't lose out on BAB from all that I've seen about it.

I believe he was referring to Stormlord's BAB, not Mystic Ranger, actually.

[Gavinfoxx]

Speaking of wanting to be a Javazon... there are some cheap gloves in MIC that let you throw an infinite amount of force javalins!

[Tetsubo 57]

Normal spears are simple two-handed weapons. I would allow any character with martial training to use one in one hand while also wielding a shield. Emulating the Hoplite concept. Add in the returning magical enhancement and you should be good to go.

[Greenish]

Normal spears are simple two-handed weapons. I would allow any character with martial training to use one in one hand while also wielding a shield.

A character proficient with martial weapons could just use a Trident, which is practically identical.

[Tetsubo 57]

A character proficient with martial weapons could just use a Trident, which is practically identical.

But doesn't fit the reality that the spear & shield was quite possibly the most common weapon/armour combination in all of history. I want to be able to emulate history, not play semantics with game mechanics. When the mechanics get in the way, they get changed or tossed.

[Greenish]

But doesn't fit the reality that the spear & shield was quite possibly the most common weapon/armour combination in all of history. I want to be able to emulate history, not play semantics with game mechanics. When the mechanics get in the way, they get changed or tossed.

I was pointing out that you could just as well change the fluff.

[Emmerask]

well the trident has a 10ft range increment instead of the 20ft

[Greenish]

well the trident has a 10ft range increment instead of the 20ft

And x2 instead of x3 crit, for some reason. I didn't say they were perfectly identical.

[Coidzor]

I believe he was referring to Stormlord's BAB, not Mystic Ranger, actually.

d'oh! Serves me right for that. Stormlord (for 1 level dips anyway) is replicateable by the free action +1 force javelins of this item:

Get Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC 194, 7000 gp)

At level 2, you get a shock weapon property added onto any spear/javelin type of thing and +1 BAB, which may be more worth it for a jumping out point.

Ranger would get Endurance for free, after all, leaving just Weapon Focus with whatever kind of spear he favored and Great Fortitude to pay for the class. So I'd recommend 1st, 2nd, or 4th for dipping drop points....

[Morph Bark]

I once did this sort of thing, except for the Hide part, since it was a half-ogre Barbarian/Warblade/Fighter/Bloodstorm Blade/Frenzied Berzerker. Seriously, two-hander that you can throw? Awesome. Getting the returning enhancement is of course a good idea, but otherwise going Swordsage, dipping Warblade or taking Martial Study for Iron Heart Maneuvers, and then going Bloodstorm Blade, is a pretty solid idea. Plus still highly effective in melee as well.