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Thread: DM's: How do you handle them?
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2010-10-15, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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DM's: How do you handle them?
Your dice?
Do you roll them open to the players or behind the shield?
Have you always done it the way you do?
What are your reasons and experiances that have formed your preferance for either way?
The reason i ask this is up untill now i have been an exclusively behind the shield man but i am thinking about switching sides and was looking for some insite from my fellow play grounders.Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.
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2010-10-15, 01:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Bribe them with snacks and follow their plot hooks, and they will usually be amenable to your needs.
Oh, that's not what you meant.Originally Posted by The Giant
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2010-10-15, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I used to roll openly, now I hang back. I find myself fudging FOR the players far more than the beasties, but they're a generally contentious lot, and if my rolls are transparent, they object most vehemently to fudging, and I so hate explaining myself while DMing.
I still rolls stats, and critical moments openly.
I see it more as putting on display, and not a matter of trust. For if they trust implicitly, or not at all, you might as well put the dice away and just play storyteller.Life is a gamble, roll the dice. If your life is like cards, rig the deck.
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2010-10-15, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Openly, unless my players don't know the number/if any rolls are going on.
Also unlike the poster above I never, ever fudge a roll. I don't roll at all if I want something to occur a certain way, no reason to do it any other way.Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2010-10-15, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
If they're not supposed to know if they succeed or when the die is rolled (for example spot or appraise), then behind the shield.
Other than that? Nah, still behind the shield :P
Unless they're supposed to know, then I roll behind the shield and tell them unless they object.Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2010-10-15, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
My DM usually rolls beind the screen, to provide some more suspense in combat (players tend to react differently to a monster tha just hit them by rolling a 19 than to one that just hit them by rolling a 2), but we can always ask beforehand for a roll to be made out in the open (usually for save-or-die effects) or to see the dice after he rolled.
He never goes easy on us, and I really think he doesn't fudge much(so far i know of a single instance where he did so, but it was in some very special circumstances: fighting a CR 22 dragon at lvl 13).
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2010-10-15, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Behind the shield.
It's not a matter of fudge or not, but sometime you had to keep the roll secret, so why make distinction?
Eventually, the only time I roll openly, it's for some climax moment (the ST of a BBEG, etc)Last edited by Killer Angel; 2010-10-15 at 02:54 AM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
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2010-10-15, 03:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I use the screen, though it's more to keep the dice nearby, and it's a convienient wall to bounce them off. (Usually if I don't throw them AT something, they'll just roll off the table. ) I honestly don't care if they see what I roll, since I usually only have a vague idea of what the DC is of the challenge I just made up that second.
If asked the question "how can I do this within this system?" answering with "use a different system" is never a helpful or appreciated answer.
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2010-10-15, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I actually am fond of printing out a page stuffed to the gills with columns of numbers and cross them off as I use them.
Well, not for combat, but for any secret rolls, I use it.
Combat, I roll openly. Fudging defeats the whole point of rolling, for me.I will NOT succumb to evil!...Unless she's cute._____________
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2010-10-15, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I've never used a DM screen, actually.
That said, I do occasionally roll dice where the players can't see them, either because it's something they shouldn't know the outcome of yet, or because it's something that may require fudging. I don't let my dice get in the way of a good plotGuide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2010-10-15, 04:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I always roll in the open. If it's a secret roll that the players are not meant to know of, I still roll in the open and pick it up sharpish.
Also, I use different dice for DMing than for playing (mostly)Always kill your enemies, otherwise they will come back to haunt you - anon
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2010-10-15, 04:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I normally use a dice roller instead of dragging my dice around everywhere (I love my phone ) so i would likely be considered behind the screen (small pun there, har)
When i DO use dice (rarely) i roll them openly but grin when i do, that always gets the players nervous.
Another good thing if i roll openly is to just pick up a dice and roll it for fun, no game consequence so my players dont really know what im rolling for or when, it might be something important or it might not.
Edit: On a related note, i am wondering, how many people here name their dice sets?
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2010-10-15, 05:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I use a screen when I have a screen, and it's not combat. As for naming my dice sets, I do not, but I also have certain dice sets for certain things (One for NPCs, one for as a player, and the rest for monsters)
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2010-10-15, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
mmm all interesting,
I have a feeling i may be fudging to much (mainly to the players benifit) and i thought letting them fall infront of the screen my force me to stop that.
Thoughts or sugestions?Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.
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2010-10-15, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I roll openly. I have nothing to hide... well, at least not behind a screen.
I've always rolled openly, although I did try out rolling behind a screen once. Mostly rolling behind the screen damaged too much credibility for the players, to really justify being able to fiat results. Besides, with so many other factors under a GM's control, you don't really need to fiat roll results anyway.
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2010-10-15, 05:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I roll behind the screen. That way, if I need to adjust anything (like to not kill them all), they'll never know. Heck, my dice are usually so poor you'd think I was fudging them just rolling normally! (Though sometimes I'll lift the screen up for dramatic to show the PCs a particularly bad roll (or just tell them), which causes them endless amusment.)
(Of course, I only bother with that when in danger of something happening that is unrecoverable from, like a TPK - which I have never had - or the PCs are too low level or in the wrong system (say, Rolemaster or WFRP) for raise dead or some other nasty deliberating permenant effect. I work on perceived threat. If the players believe they were THAT CLOSE to a horrible death, I find I get the tension (more in fact) without actually having to do it. And death is relatively common at higher levels, at least on D&D means you don't have to worry about it being a permenant problem). And, like I say, you'd never actually know I was doing it, since I have to do it only very rarely and, like I say, my dice rolls are bad enough when I'm trying to kill them...)
Also, randomly rolling an unspecified number of dice behind the screen and grinning evilly is a great way of getting to the players.
And if I do choose to break my own protocol to roll something out in the open...well, that usually causes the players to worry... (Which is, of course, the point.)
At the end of the day, I consider the dice to be the absolute least important aspect of a roleplaying game (as opposed to a wargame, where, in the absense of an impartial DM, they have a much greater importance). I consider them nothing more than random number generators (despite the traditional humour otherwise). Their function is to generate a reasonable amount of variance to task resolutution, nothing more, and save me from having to fiat everything. That is, they are part of the game, but not THE game, not the defining aspect. 99.99% of the time, I'll let them do their job unimpeded. But I will step in if I think they are being too random to the detrement of the game. But you'll never know when it is, since my DMing is basically mostly a big black box. (Sure, I'll tell you things like AC and whatnot - once you've hit for the first time, and occasionally let things like attack bonuses slip if they're really good or really laughable (more often than not after the session though) But mostly, the players only get the minimum required mechanical data they need in data terms - and no LESS than that - everything else is in-game descriptions.)
Generally, though, I find these days I have to fudging dice do that less and less, as I have other control methods (fate points for the PCs, my Defiant template for bosses or even just changing the tactics a bit).Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2010-10-15 at 05:59 AM.
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2010-10-15, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
My group protests that they should be allowed to make their own roles and I have trouble objecting most of the time.
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2010-10-15, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Always behind the screen, for much the same reasons some have mentioned. It allows you to do those Spot/Search checks somewhere where the players won't know if they truly find nothing or they just failed to find anything, it allows the ocassional "oh God this roll is stupid let's tone it down and just get him to unconscious" moments, and it lets you roll random dice behind it for nothing at all so that the players get a bit psyched out .
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2010-10-15, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Usually I keep them secret, but if I'm playing online I don't mind the players seeing them.
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2010-10-15, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Only when it's life or death for somebody's favorite character (after they run out of plot armor), do I roll in the open. The rest is behind the screen.
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-10-15, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2010-10-15, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I usually roll everything out in the open. Attack rolls, skill checks, damage - whatever. It helps the players realize exactly what their up against sometimes.
I also, occationally roll dice for no reason whatsoever.
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2010-10-15, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-15, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I had a DM that always rolled right in front of us. Really made the game better, that way you know he isn't fiating anything out.
But then again he's like the best DM I've ever played with, so it was probably more than just rolling in front of us, I just think it helps make it more believable when monsters crit you three times in a row or when monsters make their saving throws when failing would kill them.
But, the only DMs I've had that roll in the open are the most trust-worthy DMs I've played with, so it probably wouldn't matter if they rolled behind a screen.Originally Posted by Hans
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2010-10-15, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.
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2010-10-15, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I roll in the open. No fudging here.
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2010-10-15, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
We've always rolled those when they become important.
You say you're disguised? Agreed. It's fluff.
You encounter the palace guard, now it's contested. Roll it.
You create a bank note? Ok. You have it.
You use the bank note to buy the horse? Now it's important. Roll it.
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2010-10-15, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
I generally prefer secret rolls. Along with adding random rolls at times just to up the paranoia level, although that can be done with "active" rolls, too.
"Okay, everyone give me a Spot check."
(dice are rolled)
"Hmmm... okay... nothing to see here. Honest. Move along..."
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2010-10-15, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
Well of course.
I was debating the idea of "I always roll in the open". Some skills, by RAW should be rolled behind the screen.
Eventually, you can delay the roll 'til the moment you present the bank note to the store... at that point, yes, it can be rolled in the open, and you suffer immediately the penalty for a failure.
But sometime, you cannot. You roll a bluff Vs a sense motive... you shouldn't know if the npc believed you, or if later you'll have a bad surprise.
The two things are not necessarily related.Last edited by Killer Angel; 2010-10-15 at 09:03 AM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2010-10-15, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: DM's: How do you handle them?
If I have a screen, I'll roll behind it but mostly because it's physically between me and the players. The only time I'll fudge something is the occasional monster damage roll. If the PCs are having a string of bad dice rolls I'll lower a monster's damage rolls to string out the combat a few extra rounds and give them a chance to win the "epic" combat of the day.
I drive a quantum car- every time I look down at the speedometer, I get lost.
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